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The 70 Weeks Prophecy and the 1290 DAYS

19 Nov
from Google Images

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The second half of Daniel’s Seventy Weeks Prophecy is represented in 1290 days of Daniel 12:11. This time period begins when “the daily sacrifice is taken away” giving placement to “the abomination that makes desolate.” That is, taking the daily sacrifice away and placing the abomination that makes desolate in its stead is one complete event, and there will be 1290 days after this event, and at that time the 70 Weeks Prophecy would be fulfilled. This would also be the time when the Old Covenant ended and the New Covenant would be fully established with the parousia (G3952) or coming of Jesus as the Messiah. It would also be the time of the resurrection of the dead and of the Great White Throne Judgment.[1]

Notice what the Scripture says:

From the time that the daily sacrifice is removed and the abomination that causes desolation is set in place, there are 1,290 days. (Daniel 12:11)

This verse is interpreted to mean there are 1290 days between the events of removing the daily sacrifice and the setting up of the abomination that makes desolate, but this doesn’t make sense. Why would there be any interval between the two. The second replaces the first. That’s the whole point of removing the daily sacrifice to begin with. When Antiochus Epiphanies removed the daily sacrifice cir. 167 BC, he immediately offered an abominable sacrifice in its place. The words: “from the time” can just as easily mean from the time of the occurrence of both events. Notice how the verse reads, if we place the subject of the sentence first:

“1290 days (‘shall be’ or ‘is’ or ‘remains’ – the verb is not in the Hebrew) from the time that the daily sacrifice is removed and the abomination that causes desolation is set in its place.”

If we can agree that the Daily Sacrifice foreshadows Jesus, who is the reality of the shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), then the Daily Sacrifice, Jesus, was ‘taken away’ and the abomination that brought desolation (Caesar) was set up on the same day (cf. John 19:15). Jesus gave the Jews a season to repent (Revelation 2:20-21). This season is represented between the day of Jesus’ resurrection in 31 AD and the Day of Atonement 3 ½ years later in 34 AD.[2] The Day of Atonement represented a day of national repentance. Nevertheless, with the death of Stephen on this date, the Jews were shown to be in rebellion, proclaiming Caesar, not Jesus, was their king.

Since this season of repentance ended in unbelief, the 1290 days would be fulfilled later, inserting a “gap” if you will, between the 1260 days, and the 1290 days. This “gap” is understood as a season of judgment for the unbelief of the nation during Israel’s exodus out of Egypt. Originally, there were to be brought immediately into the Promised Land. Instead, they wandered in the wilderness for 40 years because of their unbelief.

During the second exodus, while Jesus was bringing his people out of bondage (Galatians 4:24-26), there were those who didn’t believe. In fact, the nation, as a whole, rejected Jesus in favor of Caesar (John 19:15), and refused to repent, though they were given a season to do so (Acts 7:55-60; Revelation 2:20-21). Therefore, a “gap” of unbelief occurred between the time of Jesus’ crucifixion to the time of his second coming, when he promised to judge Jerusalem and the Temple (Matthew 26:64; cf. 24:30). Therefore, if these things I mentioned are logical, we must look for the fulfillment of Daniel’s Seventy Weeks Prophecy during the Jews’ war with Rome (66-70 AD). However, since Acts ends in 62 AD, we must look for those dates in secular history.

Josephus mentions several dates of significance, but only two seem to fit Daniel’s prophecy without any obscurity, and there are exactly 1290 days between them. Consider that the Roman general Cestius first surrounded Jerusalem with his armies, then broke into the city, but for no good reason retreated.[3] This is remarkably similar to what Jesus predicted would take place in Luke 21:20-21.[4] The date of this occurrence was the 8th day of the 8th month in the year 66 AD, only a few weeks after the beginning of the war.[5] Once more, if we can agree that Jesus is the ‘Reality’ of the Daily Sacrifice, and Jesus was ‘in’ the believers, then when the believers left, the Daily Sacrifice was removed from the city (cf. Revelation 18:4) Exactly 1290 days later, on the 7th day of the 2nd month in 70 AD, the Roman general, Titus, in the name of his father Vespasian, Caesar and king of the kings of the earth, broke into the city of Jerusalem and camped there in the shadow of the Temple.[6] The city was taken and the northern wall was destroyed (Babylon had fallen – Revelation 14:8; 18:2-3). The Temple would be taken and destroyed only a few weeks later on the 10th day of the 5th month, which was the anniversary of the day it was burned by Nebuchadnezzar.[7]

Thus, the 1290 days were fulfilled with Jesus’ judgment of Jerusalem in the person of Titus (the prince that should come – Daniel 9:27). This represents the time of Jesus’ “Second Coming” (Matthew 24:30), the end of the Old Covenant (Hebrews 8:13; 9:15), the resurrection of the just and the unjust (Matthew 13:39-41; 24:31) and the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-13), and the coming of the Kingdom of God in its fullness (Revelation 21:1-3).

Nisan
Iyar
Sivan
Tammuz
Av (Ab)
Elul
Tishrei
Marcheshvan, the 8th day – Christians flee city The Christians left on the 8th day
Kislev, the 7th day – 66 AD 29 days
Tevet, the 7th day – 66 AD 29 days + 30 days = 59 days
Shevat, the 7th day – 67 AD 59 days +29 days = 88 days
Adar, the 7th day – 67 AD 88days + 30 days = 118 days
Adar 2, the 7th day – 67 AD 118 days + 29 days = 147 days

 

Nisan, the 7th day – 67 AD 147 + 29 days = 176 days
Iyar, the 7th day – 67 AD 176 days + 30 days = 206 days
Sivan, the 7th day – 67 AD 206 days + 29 days = 235 days
Tammuz, the 7th day – 67 AD 235 days + 30 days = 265 days
Av, the 7th day – 67 AD 265 days + 29 days = 294 days
Elul, the 7th day – 67 AD 294 days + 30 days = 324 days
Tishrei, the 7th day – 67 AD 324 days + 29 days = 353 days
Marcheshvan, the 7th day – 67 AD 353 days + 30 days = 383 days
Kislev, the 7th day – 67 AD 383 days + 29 days = 412 says
Tevet, the 7th day – 67 AD 412 days + 30 days = 442 days
Shevat, the 7th day – 68 AD 442 days + 29 days = 471 days
Adar, the 7th day – 68 AD 471 days + 30 days = 501 days
Adar 2

 

Nisan, the 7th day – 68 AD 501 days + 29 days = 530 days
Iyar, the 7th day – 68 AD 530 days + 30 days = 560 days
Sivan, the 7th day – 68 AD 560 days + 29 days = 589 days
Tammuz, the 7th day – 68 AD 589 days + 30 days = 619 days
Av, the 7th day – 68 AD 619 days + 29 days = 648 days
Elul, the 7th day – 68 AD 648 days + 30 days = 678 days
Tishrei, the 7th day – 68 AD 678 days + 29 days = 707 days
Marcheshvan, the 7th day – 68 AD 707 days + 30 days = 737 days
Kislev, the 7th day – 68 AD 737 days + 29 days = 766 days
Tevet, the 7th day – 68 AD 766 days + 30 days = 796 days
Shevat, the 7th day – 69 AD 796 days + 29 days = 825 days
Adar, the 7th day – 69 AD 825 days + 30 days = 855 days
Adar 2, the 7th day – 69 AD 855 days + 29 days = 884 days

 

Nisan, the 7th day – 69 AD 884 days + 30 days = 914 days
Iyar, the 7th day – 69 AD 914 days + 30 days = 944 days
Sivan, the 7th day – 69 AD 944 days + 29 days = 973 days
Tammuz, the 7th day – 69 AD 973 days + 30 days = 1003 days
Av, the 7th day – 69 AD 1003 days + 29 days = 1032 days
Elul, the 7th day – 69 AD 1032 days + 30 days = 1062 days
Tishrei, the 7th day – 69 AD 1062 days + 29 days = 1091 days
Marcheshvan, the 7th day – 69 AD 1091 days + 30 days = 1121 days
Kislev, the 7th day – 69 AD 1121 days + 29 days = 1150 days
Tevet, the 7th day – 69 AD 1150 days + 30 days = 1180 days
Shevat, the 7th day – 70 AD 1180 days + 29 days = 1209 days
Adar, the 7th day – 70 AD 1209 days + 30 days = 1239 days
Adar 2

 

Nisan, the 7th day – 70 AD 1239 days + 29 days = 1268 days
Iyar, the 7th day – 70 AD

On the 7th day of Iyar Titus tore down the walls of northern Jerusalem and set his camp inside the city. Jerusalem (Babylon) had fallen (Revelation 14:8; 18:2).

1268 days + 22 days = 1290 days

___________________________________

[1] This study has been revised. I have come to realize that there is a ‘gap’ between the fulfillment of the 1260 days and the 1290 days. Without the ‘gap’ the Jewish nation would have repented. The ‘gap’ represents judgment for their unbelief.

[2] Had the Jews repented instead of killing Stephen, the 1290 days would have ended here, because there are exactly 1290 days between the day Jesus rose from the dead in 31 AD and the Day of Atonement in 34 AD. Jesus would have returned, the Kingdom of God would have been established, the Old Covenant would have ended embracing the New Covenant, and the resurrection would have occurred on the Day of Atonement 34 AD, **IF** the Jews, as a nation, repented and received Jesus as their Messiah.

[3] Josephus, Wars, 2.19.4, 7

[4] Josephus, Wars, 2.20.1.

[5] Josephus, Wars, 2.19.9

[6] Josephus, Wars, 5.7.2-3.

[7] Josephus, Wars, 6.4.5

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24 Comments

Posted by on November 19, 2009 in Prophecy, Religion

 

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24 responses to “The 70 Weeks Prophecy and the 1290 DAYS

  1. Dave

    September 29, 2017 at 14:40

    I hope that churches like mine; charismatic, as well as other mainstream churches would come to realize they are so musguided on this topic. But would you clarify this passages relationship to tge second coming and the great white throne of judgement? I suspect yiu are right in, I just can’t quite wrap my brain around it. Thanks

     
    • Eddie

      September 29, 2017 at 23:05

      Greetings Dave. It is good to hear from you again. I’m not certain I understand your whole question, but I’ll give it a go. Don’t hesitate to question me more if I’m unclear or don’t address your question properly. This idea is so new to me, that I’m still changing the content of my blog studies (over 1200 — but fortunately not all on eschatology), and this study on the 1290 days is one of my most recent changes.

      I don’t know if you read my study on the 1260 days and the 1335 days, but the one ends at the crucifixion and the other on the day of Pentecost. The “gap” between them and the beginning of the 1290 days is the Millennium–not a literal 1000 year period. 1000 years is compared to a day (2Peter 3) and as “yesterday when it is past” and as a watch in the night (Psalm 90), which is probably the text from which Peter derives his point. The 40 year period (give or take) between the crucifixion and the Lord’s Second Coming was the so-called Millennial period.

      Matthew 24 speaks of the Lord’s coming in 70 AD to judge Jerusalem. Jesus said it would occur in a single generation — that generation that rejected him (Matthew 23:32; 24:34). Jesus told the leaders of the Jews to fill up the measure of their fathers, because all of the blood of all of the righteous would be required of that generation (Matthew 23:32-35).

      Isaiah 25:1-2 speaks of the Lord coming and destroying the city (Jerusalem), and verse-8 puts this at the time death is destroyed (i.e. the time of the resurrection, and resurrection is the time of the judgment). If we place this in the context of Revelation, it is the time of the judgment of Jerusalem (the whore of chapter 17 & 18), but it is the city the nations come against in Revelation 20, after the 1000 year period (really cir. 40 years). This is when judgment and resurrection occur. I’m still fitting it all together **neatly**, but the skeleton is there–Jesus’ coming, judgment, resurrection, and the establishment of the Kingdom of God with the Church in Revelation 21. God makes his dwelling with us and that’s where we are today.

      If you have the time, you can probably find a better explanation of this concept on a couple of You Tube channels, one by Don K. Preston and the other by William Bell. There may be more, but I know these two men have helped me see and understand that Jesus’ coming occurred in 70 AD.

      If you would rather read about this point of view. I’m here. I don’t change my point of view easily, but I am convinced that this is true. I have not found any argument to the contrary that is convincing. I believe the Lord kept his word to us cir. 70 AD, and we don’t have to go on apologizing for **his** delay–not his, but men accuse him of delaying his return. I don’t wish to impute motive, but to say Jesus delayed his coming, if indeed he did not, is an evil and wicked doctrine (Matthew 24:48). Hope delayed is sickness to the soul, but hope realized is a tree of life (Proverbs 13:12).

      Anyway, Dave, may the Lord bless you in your studies and guide you to a peaceful conclusion.

       
    • Dave White

      September 30, 2017 at 08:29

      Thank you for the clarification. Sorry about the typos. We are travelling so I’m using the phone, plus having clunky fingers!
      I understand more and it certainly makes sense. So. Is there an end of the age yet to come?

       
      • Eddie

        September 30, 2017 at 08:39

        Hi Dave, business or pleasure (traveling)? If pleasure, I hope you are having great time.

        As much as I am able to tell, our age will never end (Daniel 2:44). The Gospel age simply keeps going. When we die, we go to be with the Lord. So far, I am unable to see more than this as it pertains to the future. I have to say, though, it is so much better not knowing much about the future now (understanding as I do now), than when I was a premillennialist and thought I knew a great deal more. It also places me in a position to say no matter who it is who points to the soon coming of Jesus, he or she is flat out wrong. So many people have been hurt by this doctrine, and now I can understand why–it is all a doctrine of men, and as Jesus claimed in Matthew 23, such things hurt the innocent.

        Lord bless you, Dave.

         
  2. Robert

    August 3, 2016 at 23:10

    Eddie, I read your blogs on the 2690 days. What is the meaning of the 1335 days and why is it blessed. The two events are contrasted.

     
    • Eddie

      August 4, 2016 at 07:29

      You may read my understanding in detail HERE, but in essence the 1335 days begin with Jesus claiming the Holy Spirit is upon him (on the Feast of Trumpets or the Jewish New Year), which marks the beginning of his public ministry, and the 1335 days end with the Holy Spirit upon the Disciples of Jesus on Pentecost (Feast of First Fruits), which marks the beginning of the ministry of the Church. Those who wait are “blessed” for obvious reasons: they waited and the Holy Spirit fell upon them.

       
    • Robert

      August 6, 2016 at 17:58

      Eddie, I agree with the meaning of the 1335 days (Pentecost), but I am confused on the 1290 days ending with the stoning of Stephen.

      11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
      Dan 12:11-12 (KJV)

      It is clear from the text in Daniel that the 1335 days is merely a continuation of the 1290 days. So, we only need to count forward 45 days to reach the blessed day. All of the prophecies of Daniel concerning the counting of days relates to Christ, the Messiah.

      I struggle with the extra 30 days between 1260 and 1290. The 1260 matches the 3 1/2 symbolism, but not the 1290. I believe it is all of continuous span of time, but I am stumped about the reason for the extra 30 days.

      Overall, excellent work on the meaning of the days. Well thought out, I greatly enjoyed it. I need to bone up on my understanding of Jewish history.

       
      • Eddie

        August 6, 2016 at 19:42

        I almost closed down the computer. You commented here while I was replying to another comment by you on another post.

        I don’t see these days taking off immediately one after another. The 1260 days of Revelation 12 are the ‘time, times and half a time’ in Daniel 12. I have it beginning on the Last Great Day of the Feast of Tabernacles during the first month of Jesus’ public ministry. If one counts 1260 days from that day (22nd day of the 7th month), 3 1/2 years later one comes to the Passover when Jesus was crucified (14th day of the 1st month). This is so no matter what day of the week one begins the 1260 days. However, the other days work out only if Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday. The following day, the 15th of Nisan, was a Holy Day Sabbath.

        Jesus lay in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights. On Resurrection Sunday, about sunrise, the Wave Sheaf was offered that blessed the harvest (for Jesus it was the spiritual harvest). This day, the 18th of Nisan (for that year) begins the 1290 days of Daniel 12 (the time, times and half a time of Revelation 12). During this period the saints were protected by God. Stephen’s death marks the end of that period. If one counts 1290 days from the 18th of Nisan in the year Jesus was crucified, one comes to the Day of Atonement the 10th day of the seventh month 3 1/2 years later.

        The 1335 days begin three weeks before and are overlaid on top of the 1260 days and over 7 weeks of the 1290 days. It begins on the Feast of Trumpets when Jesus began his public ministry in Nazareth (Luke 4). He claimed “the Spirit of the Lord is upon me…” If one counted 1335 days from this day (the first day of the 7th month, the day Jesus began his public ministry), one would arrive at Pentecost (when the Spirit was upon the disciples), the 8th day of the 3rd month in the year Jesus was crucified. These days are found in Leviticus 23. Everything gets fulfilled in Christ in one way or another.

        I’ll have to check on my posts regarding these days. I may have left explanatory things out that should have remained. Lord bless you in your studies.

         
  3. mithrandirolorin

    October 11, 2015 at 11:02

    Thing is the Earliest Christian traditions all agreed Stephen was Stoned on December 26th.

     
    • Eddie

      October 11, 2015 at 15:48

      Do you agree with everything that is termed “the earliest Christian traditions”?

      What I have done here represents an effort to show the word of God is correct. Revelation 12 gives two 3 1/2 year periods when God’s people would be protected. The first 3 1/2 year period represents Jesus’ ministry, and he claimed in his prayer to the Father (John 17) that he had kept safe all whom the Father had given him. Acts 1-7 represents the second 3 1/2 period. Although there was persecution during this period, no believer was killed until Stephen. The text implies (if compared with Revelation 12) that Stephen didn’t die until 3 1/2 years after Jesus’ resurrection.

      So far, Jared, you have denied everything I claim, but in your comments you offer no proof of your claims. I find that telling.

      Lord bless you as you study his word.

       
      • mithrandirolorin

        October 11, 2015 at 19:32

        Doctrinally no, but form my Christmas research I think they got dates pretty right.

        The Woman in Revelation 12 is Israel, the Church is The Man-Child.

         
        • Eddie

          October 11, 2015 at 20:05

          According to what I have found, they disagree on some dates. For example Irenaeus believed Jesus wasn’t crucified until after he was 40 years old. Papias thought the Apostle John wrote near his time (or near the end of the 1st century). Clement of Alexandria believed all the books of the New Testament were written between the reigns of Tiberius and Nero.

          Concerning the book of Revelation, we agree that the woman is Israel, but how could the man child be the Church? Paul speaks of the Church as the **bride** of Christ. The man-child is supposed to rule all nations with a rod of iron and was caught up to God’s throne (Revelation 12:5). This isn’t the Church; it’s Christ.

          Moreover, Jesus says that he saw Satan cast down from heaven after the 70 returned from their mission (Luke 10:18). Revelation 12:9 says that Satan was cast out of heaven just after a battle fought in the heavenlies. How often must Satan be cast out of heaven? If he was cast out during Jesus’ ministry, who let him back in to be cast out later? If he is cast out only once, then the warfare in Revelation 12 is the warfare that we fight–the warfare Paul often speaks about. It is a spiritual matter.

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 12, 2015 at 23:49

          The Irenaus quote is taken out of context. He did actually think Jesus was more then 30.

          The WOman of Revelation 12 is a mother not a Bride.
          http://midseventiethweekrapture.blogspot.com/search/label/Man%20Child

          http://midseventiethweekrapture.blogspot.com/2014/08/satans-fall-and-war-in-heaven-is-future.html

           
        • Eddie

          October 13, 2015 at 08:18

          If you believe Irenaus is taken out of context, quote the text and show where it has been abused. However, just because **you** say it is out of context, doesn’t make it so. :-)

          You need to read my reply to you again. I agree with you that the woman was “Israel” — the mother of the man-child. **You** claimed the man-child was the bride. I disagreed and showed that Paul shows the bride to be the Church. The Man-child, according to Revelation 12:5 was placed upon the throne of God and was to rule all nations. The Church is never invited to sit upon the throne of God. Therefore, the man-child **must** be Jesus.

          Concerning your war in heaven, or perhaps I should say “several” wars in heaven, you don’t support it well. If Revelation 12:9 dates to Christ’s ministry (as I believe it does), then it cannot be used to say Satan is still in heaven. Your explanation of Luke 18:10 that Jesus is actually uttering a “future” prophecy cannot be taken seriously, because you don’t support that view. You simply say it is so (as though in doing so you have the power to make it so). Both your Isaiah 21 and Isaiah 53 examples fail, because Isaiah 21 is declared a vision (verse-2), and Isaiah 53 claims “he shall grow up” (verse-2). The context of Jesus’ remark is the return of the 70 and their claim that the spiritual world is subject to them (all in the present). You cannot declare something future, simply because you want it to be so.

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 13, 2015 at 11:58

          His other statement on Chronology show he placed the nativity in 2 BC and the Crucifixion in 33 at the latest.

          The Church is promised to Rule with a Rod Iron also. I provided you a link to where I layed out my Man-Child view. It does not Contradict the Church also being the Bride, different parts of Revelation use different symbols.

           
        • Eddie

          October 13, 2015 at 17:19

          Concerning Irenaeus on chronology, In Demonstration (74) he says: “For Herod the king of the Jews and Pontius Pilate, the governor of Claudius Caesar, came together and condemned Him to be crucified.” By naming King Herod (Agrippa) and Claudius Caesar he makes Jesus to be about 44-45 years old at his death. He is clearly wrong, but this demonstrates the need for care in quoting the early Church Fathers. While their testimony is valuable for many reasons, chronology is not one of them.

          We may have been promised to rule with Christ on his throne (the Messianic Throne of Revelation 3) but we are not by any stretch of the imagination invited to rule from the throne of God (the Father) with whom Jesus does sit (Revelation 22). Revelation 12:5 has the man-child being caught up to heaven (Jesus was caught up to heaven–not us) and sitting with God on his throne. That’s not the Church, my friend, that’s Jesus.

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 13, 2015 at 23:08

          He knew full well Pilate ceased to be Governor in 37 AD. Claudius was also one of Tibeirus’s names and by Herod he likely meant Antipas.

          Revelation 12 does NOT put the Man Child on the Throne, it just says he brought to the vicinity of the Throne, we clearly see Believers in the Throne Room in Revelation 15.

           
        • Eddie

          October 14, 2015 at 07:02

          I quoted what Irenaeus wrote. You tell us what was on Irenaeus’ mind. The proof of what I claim is in quoting his works. The proof of what you claim is where? …reading his thoughts?

          Concerning using the name “Claudius” for Tiberius, how could anyone be understood when writing in history if they didn’t use the king’s popular name? I have a middle name, but if someone wrote about me using my middle name, not even my family would know the things said concerned me. You are reaching, my friend. You have no real reply to this. Irenaeus was clearly in error, as he was about Jesus being over 40 when he died.

          Concerning Revelation 12:5, where does it say that the Church will be caught up to God? Where does it say in scripture that the Church will be caught up to the “vicinity” (your claim) of his throne? Where does it say that the Church will rule all nations? While I grant you that the Church will rule, it receives its authority from Christ who sits on the throne. Any authority the Church has, it receives from him. Nothing is prophesied of the Church ruling with a rod of iron. If I’m wrong, quote the verse. On the other hand, the Messiah (the Son of God) will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Psalm 2:8-9).

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 14, 2015 at 17:01

          Claudius was the main family name of the entire dynasty. It’s modern perception mainly the individualizes the names.

          The preivous refrenc ein Rveleation to ruling wiht a Rod of Iron was directed ot the Church?

          The Greek text says the Man Child was Caught Up, Harpatzo, that word can never apply to Jesus Ascension because it implies someone was in control of it.

          If the Man-Child is Jesus the Woman certainly can’t be His Bride, she’s his Mother.

           
        • Eddie

          October 15, 2015 at 08:13

          Why do historians like Josephus refer to the Caesars by the names we know them?

          As I said in my previous reply, I grant you that the Church will rule–BUT–that authority to rule will be given to us by Christ. He already has that authority, and he (not us) was caught up to heaven, and he (not us) sits upon the throne of God. Revelation 12:5 claims the man-child was a) caught up to heaven b) is at least in the vicinity of God’s throne. Where does scripture put us in either of these places?

          Concerning the Greek text, why can’t harpazo (G726) apply to Jesus? Is it because **you** say it can’t? How is the word epairo (G1869 — used in Acts 1:9 of Jesus’ ascension) any different? To be ‘lifted up’ implies it was done by someone else. Moreover, the word hupolambano (G5274) is used of the ‘cloud’ that took Jesus away (Acts 1:9). Was this by his power or the power of another. It implies another power was in play. Your logic is not sound.

          Concerning the woman and the man-child, my friend, you don’t seem to be reading my replies in context. I’ve already agreed with you that the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. I never claimed this woman was the wife of the man-child. What I did say was that in another text Paul says the **church** is the bride of Christ, whom I conclude is the man-child–that is, Christ is the man-child, and the **church** is the bride (according to Paul).

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 15, 2015 at 16:41

          Because Harpatzo means someone else is in Contorl, that’s why It’s trnalsated “Caught Up” and “Raptured” and terms like that, they imply a lack of control.

          We are the Bride and the Man Child, just as how Jesus is symbolically represented changes in different verses so does The Church.

          Reading thoruhg Rveelaiton on it’s own, the last Reference before Chapter 12 to a Rod of Orion was Jesus Promise to Thyatira.

          Through out our Authority comes from Christ is irrelevant, Christ’s comes from The Father.

           
        • Eddie

          October 15, 2015 at 18:24

          The Greek word harpazo (G726) is used just as you claim above. We agree as to its meaning, but we disagree as to its application. You claim it applies to the church and cannot apply to Christ, because someone else is in control. Yet, Jesus says of himself: “The Son can do nothing of himself…” (John 5:19) and “I can of my own self do nothing…” (John 5:30) “…but the Father that dwells in me, he does the works (John 14:10). Therefore, your argument concerning harpazp is moot. Jesus was caught up to heaven by the power of the Father.

          On the other hand, **you** have not shown in Scripture how we (the Church) are caught up to heaven to the ‘vicinity’ of the throne of God. I asked you to support you claim with scripture, and you failed to do so.

          Nowhere in Scripture is the church described as the man-child. You have no support for your claim–at least not in the word of God.

          Concerning ruling with a rod of iron, in Psalm 2:9 it has to do specifically with the Son of God, the Messiah. In Revelation 19:15 it has to do with the one called “The Word of God” and the “King of kings and Lord of lords” — again the Messiah. In Revelation 12:5 it has to do with the man-child who was **born** to rule all nations, no implication is offered that this one had at one time rebelled, or needed to be saved–rather he was **born** to rule all nations. In Revelation 2:27 it has to do with those who have overcome and does the same works as the Son of God (has absolutely nothing to do with being **born** into the job). Your argument that Revelation 12:5 refers to Revelation 2:27, and the man-child is the Church has absolutely no foundation.

          Concerning our authority coming from Christ being irreverent because Christ’s authority comes from the Father, I fail to see how you have made your argument here. You have not supported anything you have claimed with Scripture. Everything you claim seems to be done by your own authority. In other words, it is so, because you say it is so. I am unpersuaded by such an argument. Have a good day, my friend.

           
  4. Bill Foster

    August 4, 2012 at 12:24

    Jesus warned the scribes and pharisees that blasphemy against Messiah would be forgivable but blasphemy against the Holy Sprit would not be forgivable. The modern tendency is to incorrectly individualize and personalize this warning — e.g. “have I comitted the unpardonable sin?” — but the warning was to the nation of Israel (God’s covenant people at the time) with respect to the coming time when God would bring final judgement on the nation of Israel for rejecting the New Covenant. This interpretation fits with your excellent presentation regarding Stephen’s death marking Israel’s official rejection (blasphemy) of the Holy Spirit. Or to state it differently — “Israel’s official rejection of the New Covenant.

     
    • Ed Bromfield

      August 4, 2012 at 14:46

      Bill, thanks for reading and for your excellent comment. To tell you the truth, I had been guilty of individualizing the warning too, but in a different way. Your understanding fits best, in my opinion. It was a warning for the nation, and not the individual. Excellent! I missed that. Thank you very much.

       

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