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When Was Stephen Stoned?

13 Feb

Most scholarship, I believe, puts the stoning of Stephen in 34 or 35 CE. Is there reason within the Scriptures to substantiate this claim? Yes, I believe there is! However, such substantiation comes from prophecy in both Old and New Testaments, but the understanding of these very prophecies is clouded by the interpretation of most scholarship, which puts the fulfillment of them at the second coming of Jesus.

I have written similar posts which had to do with Stephen’s death back in November of 2009. However, I think I should be clearer on this matter in order to have a better understanding of the timeline of early Acts with a particular interest in the placement of the High Priests for Stephen’s death, Paul’s persecution of the Jewish believers in Jesus in Acts 9:1, and when the “peace” occurred in Acts 9:31.

The Seventy Weeks Prophecy of Daniel 9 was supposed to offer the believer the identity of the Messiah by showing the exact time in which he would appear. The 70 Weeks Prophecy begins with the first sacrifice offered on the rebuilt altar on the Temple mount when Joshua, the High Priest, and Zerubbabel returned from the captivity. The Jews began to make daily offerings to God from the first day of the seventh month upon their return from captivity (Ezra 3:6). This is a very important date, as it represents the first time in decades that worship of the God of Israel was offered from the Temple mount, and it represents the “firstfruits” of the decree of the emperor, which I believe is implied in the prophecy. So, the date of the decree itself is not important, but date of the firstfruits of that decree is the important part of the prophecy in terms of when it begins. The Messiah was to come at the beginning of the 70th week or 483 years after the first sacrifice was offered by the returning captives.

No matter which year one chooses to begin the 70 Weeks Prophecy, the 484th year must begin in the fall and on the Feast of Trumpets. I submit that from Luke 4:16 and up to Luke 6:49 Luke shows Jesus beginning his ministry on the Feast of Trumpets (Luke 4:16) and each Sabbath mentioned thereafter is either an annual Holy Day or a seventh day Sabbath. The odd “second Sabbath after the first” in Luke 6:1 is the seventh day Sabbath which occurred in that year back to back with the annual Day of Atonement, a fast day, which is why the Apostles were hungry and began to take some grain from the fields on the Sabbath day, rubbing it in their hands and eating the kernels.

Anyway, long-story-short, 3 ½ years later Jesus was crucified, and the 70 Weeks prophecy foretold the Messiah would be ‘cut’ (offered for the covenant) in the midst or the middle of the prophetic week (Daniel 9:26-27). The 70th week comprises 7 years, 3 ½ of which represented Jesus public ministry culminating in his crucifixion and resurrection. The final period of 3 ½ years or the second part of the 70th prophetic week was fulfilled by Jesus through the ministry of the Apostles up to the time of Stephen’s death. Blood was shed in the midst of the week, and blood was shed at the culmination of the week.

Notice in Luke 10:18 that Jesus said he beheld Satan like lightning fall from heaven. This is shown in Revelation 12:7-10 where Michael/Jesus makes war with Satan. Now I am not saying Jesus is an angelic being, but I am saying Michel is Jesus—the Angel of the LORD who is God in the Old Testament. Anyway, Jesus with his disciples were waging spiritual warfare against Satan’s kingdom (cp. Luke 10:17). The angels in Revelation 12 represent the messengers of Jesus and Satan respectively. In the Gospels they are Jesus’ disciples waging war against Satan or the Pharisees and High Priests who fought against Jesus and his disciples.

Notice in Revelation 12:6 the woman (the Jewish believers) had a place of safety for 1260 days. This is the first part of the 70th prophetic week and represents Jesus care for his disciples—they were safe, and he lost no one. In the second part of the week the disciples were also safe according to Revelation 12:14. The believers were spiritually nourished for a time (1) + times (2) and half a time (1/2) or 3 ½ years. Daniel divides his 70th week up in Daniel 12 into portions of time, times and half a time (1260 days in Revelation), 1290 days (Revelation’s time, times and half a time) and 1335 days. I have argued in previous posts that all these days in Jesus’ ministry begin and end on annual Holy Days, or on an important day within those annual Feast Days, and same is true for the first few years of the ministry of the Apostles. Those studies can be found HERE, HERE and HERE respectively.

The point is there is a compelling argument that the Seventy Weeks Prophecy is fulfilled. There is no authority to remove the 70th week from the 1st century and place it in our day. That said, there is also a compelling argument showing Stephen’s death represents the end of the “safe” period for believers in Jesus. Both portions of the 70th week show Jesus’ disciples protected, but also both portions end with the shedding of blood under similar circumstances in a “kangaroo-court” that was bent upon shedding the blood of the accused.

Therefore, Stephen was stoned in the fall of 34 or 35 CE at the latest (depending upon the year Jesus began his public ministry 27 or 28 CE). This would put Caiaphas as High Priest at the stoning of Stephen (Acts 7:1). Jonathan would be the new High Priest in 36 CE in Acts 9:1, but his tenure lasted only a year and a half, or from Passover in 36 CE to the fall Festivals in 37 CE. So Theophilus would have been the High Priest immediately following Paul’s conversion in Acts 9:17-20. However, since Paul didn’t arrive at Jerusalem until 3 years afterward (Galatians 1:18), Theophilus would have continued the persecution of Jewish believers in Jesus until about 39 CE, when Caius Caesar’s determination to place a statue of himself in the Temple at Jerusalem became more important than perusing Jews who believed in Jesus and preached Stephen’s Gospel that all people are equally acceptable to God. It was this event concerning the image of Caius Caesar rather than the conversion of Paul that brought peace and a cessation of persecution of believers in Jesus (Acts 9:31).

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100 Comments

Posted by on February 13, 2010 in New Testament History, Religion

 

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100 responses to “When Was Stephen Stoned?

  1. Elise

    June 10, 2017 at 10:45

    Wow one of the best articles, it was so so interesting, and this helped me so much with my religion assignment. Thank you so much!!
    Lord bless
    Elise

     
    • Eddie

      June 10, 2017 at 22:11

      Hi Elise, and thank you for reading and for your kind words of encouragement. I’m glad to be of help. Lord bless you, too. I hope all goes well in your studies.

       
  2. Andries

    December 30, 2016 at 03:25

    Eddie, on a technical note. Your subscription manager; is it a plugin, or is it part of basic WordPress functionality? I would like to use the same in my blog. Andries

     
    • Eddie

      December 30, 2016 at 10:09

      I’m not very proficient when it comes to computer knowledge. I have whatever the basic Word Press offered me. It is free, and that agreed with my budget. :-)

      Does this answer your question? If not, tell me what a plugin is and we’ll go from there.

       
  3. Andries

    December 29, 2016 at 09:28

    Eddie, are or were you a Seveth Day Adventist? What you say sounds very SDA-like.

     
    • Eddie

      December 29, 2016 at 09:48

      Greetings Andries and thanks for reading my blog and for your question.

      No, I am not, nor have I ever been an SDA, but you’re not the first person who asked. Would you mind pointing out what in my post or post that would lead you to think I am / was?

      Lord bless you in your walk with him.

       
      • Andries

        December 29, 2016 at 13:40

        It is your interpretation of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 that made me think you are a SDA. Dispensationalists put the last seven years in our future. Critical scholars interpret it as the time of Antiochus. I think it is only a small minority of people that still hold to your interpretation, and I thought it was essentially only the SDA. I did a study of Daniel 9 some years ago. If I remember correctly, your interpretation of that prophecy was the traditional interpretation before Dispensationalism and Critical Scholars came on the scene, over the last 100 or so years.

        I am currently studying the first 30 years of the church. What I want to show is that, for the first 3 or 4 years, the church was limited to Jerusalem and Jews. The gospel was preached to Jews only, and the church obeyed the Law of Moses and the Jewish Traditions. I believe one has to appreciate this history to read Paul’s letters correctly. Many people seem to think the church fell out of sky, complete with the New Testament. But that is not true. It started off as a sect of Judaism, and it was Paul’s job to extract it out of Judaism. That happened progressively over many decades. For that reason I am trying to understand when Stephen died, because that was a turning point in history.

        The next turning point in church history, in my view, was Peter’s vision in Acts 10. That allowed the church, for the very first time, to take the gospel to Gentiles. I believe that that was about 10 years after Christ died, but I need some hard facts. Most Bible Timelines on internet simply indicate a date, without saying how they came to that date. I need more.

        Andries

         
        • Eddie

          December 29, 2016 at 21:53

          I know that non-dispensationalists say the 70 Weeks prophecy ended in the first century. Some say at the cross, some say in 70 AD. I know of no one who is able to support their understanding with the Bible. I do! While my understanding could be wrong, I do find my support within the pages of the Bible. How I count the final week, for example, can be counted no other way and still begin with and end with Jewish Holy Days (Leviticus 23). All of Daniel’s “days” in Daniel 12 and John’s in Revelation 12 begin and end with a Jewish Holy Day or a significant day within the Holy Days–according to my reckoning. If someone else does this too, I don’t know. I came by this quite by accident while studying.

          Concerning the Churches first 3-4 years, I agree with you, and this idea is supported in my interpretation of the 70 Weeks Prophecy. The 1290 days of Daniel 12 would begin with the day of the Wave Sheaf offering (occurring on Resurrection Sunday) and counted to the Day of Atonement (10th day of the 7th month, see Leviticus 23), 1290 days later. This is the day that I believe Stephen was killed.

          You are correct in saying believing Jews obeyed the Law and the Jewish traditions. They were the laws of the land–we must obey the laws of the country we live in. This is what both Peter and Paul said. However, Peter had to come to see this (Acts 10), as did Paul (Acts 9). Both were given visions that changed their minds. But, even Paul obeyed the Law and the Jewish traditions whenever he was in Palestine. He was a Jew to the Jews and a gentile to the gentiles. While gentiles don’t have to obey the Mosaic Law and the Jewish traditions, they do have to obey the laws of their own lands and the customs their neighbors live by, as long as those customs and laws don’t cause rebellion against God.

          FYI, I have Peter’s vision 3 to 4 years after Paul’s conversion, or about 38-39 AD. However, Paul had been preaching to gentiles several years before Peter’s vision. The Jerusalem church simply didn’t understand how to the Gospel could spread to gentiles without making gentiles obey the Law. After all, the Jewish religion (without the Jewish traditions) was the only faith ever begun by God. It was a difficult concept for them to accept. Paul was an educated rabbi, and he was able to see what most of the church in Jerusalem couldn’t see. The believing Jews knew nothing else but the Mosaic Law and the customs of their land. Paul was from Tarsus, so the Lord used Paul’s experiences in the land of the gentiles to see things in the Scriptures that others didn’t readily see. Peter’s vision was for himself and the believing Jews in Jerusalem. Believing Jews in Jerusalem had a difficult time accepting the ways of Paul, but Peter was one of them, and they accepted what the Lord told him (Acts 11). But, some still doubted as we see when Paul returned to Jerusalem in Acts 20-21.

           
      • Andries

        December 30, 2016 at 03:21

        Hi Eddie

        I have now read your post carefully.

        Your interpretation of Daniel 9 may be called the historical-messianic interpretation. This interpretation has been the dominant one over the centuries, and has offered those that accept it a testimony to God’s foreknowledge revealed through this prophecy.

        You bravely wrote “I know of no one who is able to support their understanding with the Bible. I do!” Perhaps you want to read this interpretation of Daniel 9. (http://revelationbyjesuschrist.com/daniel-9-summary/) This will also explain the other interpretations of Daniel 9.

        It seems as if you have no proof for the beginning year of the 70 weeks, nor of the end year. Nor do you have proof for the year in which the Messiah was cut off. In fact you do not provide proof for any date in this post. Perhaps you provided proof in some other posts.

        A fundamental difference that I will have with you is that you equate the crisis in Daniel 9 to the crisis in the other chapters of Daniel. Consequently you equate the 1260 days (which is the time, times and half a time) to the 3½ years you find in Daniel 9. In the reference above you will find a section arguing that Daniel 9 and the other prophecies in Daniel deal with different events.

        Andries

         
        • Eddie

          December 30, 2016 at 10:43

          Greetings Andries, I understand that my interpretation of Daniel’s 70 Weeks Prophecy would fall under an historical definition. As far as being “brave” is concerned, I wouldn’t know. What I do know is this. I don’t accept the common belief that the 490 years begins with Artaxerxes of Ezra 7. He made no real decree. All he did was rule upon what was already decreed. I also believe there are errors in historical chronology, which is largely due to Biblical scholars embracing Claudius Ptolemy’s so called “Canon of the Kings”. So, in a sense, you are correct. I don’t have a beginning year, but I do date the beginning of the 490 years with the decree of Cyrus (Ezra 1). I know this is in error as far as Biblical scholars go, but I believe they err in their own understanding of chronology. So, there we are.

          My end date for the 490 years would be the Day of Atonement 34 AD. So, the beginning must be the Feast of Trumpets 457
          BC, but Biblical chronologists push the reign of Cyrus back to cir. 576 – 530 BC. So, there is an error of 75 to 80 years in chronology or I am in error. I am just a guy who reads the Bible. I’m not a scholar, so is it brave or arrogant to say I am correct and the scholars are wrong? I’ll let others decide the answer to that question. I merely receive the word of God is true wherever it leads me.

          Concerning proof, who has proof of anything? If Biblical chronology is based upon the dubious understanding of the “historian”, Claudius Ptolemy, where is to proof of anything we understand about Daniel? It is all a guess.

          Concerning your 22 page summary of what you wrote on Daniel 9, I’ll give it a read, but I would like to respond by email because the response will include excerpts from your work, and will probably be quite lengthy–perhaps several lengthy responses might be needed. You will find my email address on my “About” page at the top of my blog. If you would be kind enough to send me an email, I’ll respond to your work within a few days to a week.

          Lord bless you, Andries, in your walk with him.

           
  4. Keith

    October 3, 2016 at 16:03

    I like your observations. All of Daniel’s prophecies are fulfilled and verified through Josephus. Daniel stated seventy weeks, and that fulfillment is in exact detail to the very second. Though the death of Christ marks the end of 69th week, there is no event to mark the end of the 70th. It may have been when the last Jewish believer was executed at the hands of evil Jews, when the last drop of innocent blood was shed. The reason I think this is because of the amount of attention given to martyrs in Revelation, and crying of souls under the altar.

     
    • Eddie

      October 3, 2016 at 16:39

      Greetings Keith, and thank you for reading and for taking time to comment.

      Of course you are free to agree or disagree with anything I have posted. They are simply my studies, and I’ve offered them for the consideration of folks like you.

      According to my understanding of the 70 Weeks Prophecy, it is only a matter of opinion, and unsubstantiated, that scholars try to separate the 70th week from the other 69. There is no proof of this in Daniel for any of his prophecies, and there is nothing in any prophecy elsewhere, whereby a prophecy begins and is almost fulfilled, but then stops until a later date to be completely fulfilled.

      The prophecy is divided into three: 7 weeks or 49 years for the Temple and wall to be built; plus 62 weeks or 434 years waiting for the Messiah to come (a total of 483 years from the time the first stone was placed with another to build the Temple); plus one week which is the week of the Messiah or 7 years. Jesus personally fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years during his public ministry, and the final 3 1/2 years were fulfilled by Jesus through his disciples until the first blood was shed in the killing of Stephen.

      As far as the blood of the martyrs is concerned, Jesus testified that all the innocent blood that was shed from Able to Zechariah (in other words Genesis to 2Chronicles — the entire Bible as it was known at that time) would be accounted for by the generation that rejected Jesus as their Messiah. That judgment occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem, so the martyrs of Revelation are satisfied–and by the way, there is absolutely no good reason to place the writing of Revelation at the end of the first century. I place it during the reign of King Herod Agrippa in the early 40s AD.

      Lord bless you Keith.

       
      • Eugene

        July 22, 2017 at 01:27

        Eddie,

        I appreciate you work on this topic and it seems to me that you have done a very nice job of it. I agree with you that the Dispensational view of Scripture and particularly eschatology can’t be defended from the Bible. It simply does not fit.

        You are correct that there is no other example of prophecy anywhere in the Bible where there is a “gap” in time when God gives a specific time frame in the prophecy. As a matter of fact, Daniel was reading the Book of Jeremiah regarding the Babylonian captivity of which he himself (Daniel) was caught up in… “In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans— in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.” (Daniel 9:1-2)

        So while in the final years of his 70 year captivity in Babylon, Daniel is reading about the prophecy given to Jeremiah about the captivity and the angel appears to Daniel and gives him another prophesy regarding a future 70 “weeks” prophecy. Did the angel of God come to Daniel at the end of the 69th year of his captivity in Babylon and tell Daniel that the captivity would continue on for an undisclosed amount of time? Did he say that the prophetic clock had “stopped”? No he did not. Did Noah find out that forty days and nights of rain actually meant 50 or 60 days and nights? Did the Moses and the Jews wander in the wilderness for 40 years or was it actually 50 or 100 years? What kind of God would we be serving that did something like that? Certainly not the faithful and true God of the Bible!!!

        By the way, I agree with you about the 70th week of Daniel ending at the stoning of Stephen. I have studied this quite a bit myself and I believe that the Seventy weeks of Daniel began with the decree given by Artaxerxes I in the seventh year of his reign (457/456 B.C). It is recorded in Ezra 7:8-26.

        483 years later (69 weeks of years), Jesus began His earthly ministry with His baptism by John. It is recorded by Dr. Luke in his gospel (Luke 3:1-2)…

        “Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, and Herod was tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip was tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene, in the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness.”

        Notice the precision that Dr. Luke goes to in describing the time of the baptism. Normally in the Bible, one prominent figure is all that is needed to nail down a timeframe like: “Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar.” That should have been sufficient to lock down the date. Luke goes much further and specifically mentions seven prominent people to absolutely nail down this time. WHY? It is when Messiah the Prince officially arrives. This is the beginning of the Seventieth Week Daniel!! We know historically that Tiberius reigned from 14 to 37 A.D. The 15th year of his reign would put the baptism of Jesus around 29 to 30 A.D.

        I would really be interested in how you calculated the date for the stoning of Stephen.

        Grace and peace to you.

         
        • Eddie

          July 26, 2017 at 17:08

          Hi Eugene, sorry replying took so long, but I was out of Internet service for almost a week. I also need to delay replying in full, until I return from a doctor’s appointment. Lord bless you and thanks again for reading and for your comment. I promise to reply in full upon my return.

           
        • Eddie

          July 26, 2017 at 21:32

          Greetings, again, Eugene. I’ll now reply to your comment and question above.

          By the way, I agree with you about the 70th week of Daniel ending at the stoning of Stephen. I have studied this quite a bit myself and I believe that the Seventy weeks of Daniel began with the decree given by Artaxerxes I in the seventh year of his reign (457/456 B.C). It is recorded in Ezra 7:8-26.

          I agree that the 70 Weeks Prophecy begins in 457 BC, but there are errors in secular chronology due to the ‘so-called’ scientific studies of Claudius Ptolemy in dating the reigns of Persian kings by eclipses. Claudius Ptolemy is a 2nd century AD historian / scientist who is praised by a number of Biblical scholars, but I don’t agree. The decree in Ezra 7 has to do with Ezra’s journey to Jerusalem and the “release” of Jews who went with him, but by the time they arrived the Temple was almost built. They arrived in time for the memorial celebrations, and Nehemiah was permitted to return to take charge of the celebrations too, but he had to return to Persia afterward. He had been permitted to journey to Jerusalem cir. 20 years earlier, but problems involving neighboring anti-Semitic nations forced his recall before the Temple was completed. The decree that began it all was the decree of Cyrus in Ezra 1, but the 490 years didn’t begin until an altar was built up and the first animals were sacrificed thereon since it was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. This was on the Feast of Trumpets 457 BC (Ezra 3:1-3) and 483 year later Jesus is found saying “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me…” (Luke 4:18), which I take to be the beginning of the final week of the 70 Weeks Prophecy.

          You have the week beginning with Jesus’ baptism, and that’s okay. After all this is just a Bible study, and we can disagree about some things. Nevertheless, I believe I have better support in the Scriptures, but that may be just my point of view. :-)

          You asked how I calculated the date for the stoning of Stephen. Well, it is a bit involved, and you may find it detailed better in some of my studies relating to this prophecy, but basically it can be shown that the “thousands” of converts in the early chapters of Acts represent folks coming to Jerusalem to celebrate the Jewish annual festivals. There are several “updates” in Luke’s chronicle, and they are better understood to show the passage of years—e.g. Acts 2 is Pentecost 31 AD, but Acts 3 might be Passover 32 AD. The controversy in Acts 6 showing a disagreement between the Hellenist Jews and the regular Jews born in Judea/Galilee shows a few years passage of time. After all, most of the growth of the early church in Judea probably represented Jews who knew Jesus firsthand. They heard him preach and saw his miracles. Yet, another group began to grow. Some of the Diaspora heard the Gospel during the annual festivals and either took the Gospel back to their local synagogues in Asia and Europe (as well as Mesopotamia and Egypt), but some of them resettled in Judea, like the six evangelists Peter ordained to lead the Grecian Jewish believers who broke away from the regular Judean/Galilean born Jews. This takes us only so far. We are able to see from the number of converts and the context that Acts 1-6 is 2-4 years.

          We can narrow it down a bit by saying, since the 70th week began with Jesus’ sermon in Nazareth and his ministry ended in the midst of the week (according to Daniel), which historically proved true. He was crucified on the Passover day, 3 ½ years after he began his ministry on the 1st day of the 7th month of the Jewish calendar 27 AD. Therefore, Acts 1 through 6 must be about 3 ½ years long, if we can believe the Lord is giving us a short chronology of the final 3 ½ years. I did all the calculations in another study on this subject, if you care to read it.

          Finally, Revelation 12 shows that during the first 1260 days of the 70th week the disciples of Jesus are protected—he personally protects them. The next “time, times and half a time” or 1290 days (see Daniel 12) the woman (believers / disciples of Jesus) is persecuted but is helped and protected. So no blood is shed among the disciples for the entire 70th week. The first half of the week ended with Jesus’ blood being shed (the 1260 days). The second half of the week ended with Stephen’s blood being shed (the 1290) days. The 1290 day begin on resurrection Sunday and end on the Day of Atonement, 3 ½ years later. All the Days of Daniel begin and end on a significant day in the Jewish Calendar, usually one of the annual Holy Days of Leviticus 23.

          I have a number of studies dealing with this subject that can be found HERE, if you care to read them. May the Lord bless you and all your studies of his word.

           
  5. Kenneth G. Palmer

    February 28, 2016 at 00:33

    Good work Eddie. I enjoyed your work on the entire site.

     
    • Eddie

      February 28, 2016 at 05:56

      Thank you Ken, both for reading and for your encouraging remark. Lord bless you.

       
  6. mithrandirolorin

    October 11, 2015 at 10:58

    “No matter which year one chooses to begin the 70 Weeks Prophecy, the 484th year must begin in the fall and on the Feast of Trumpets.”

    Wrong, that is Rabbinic Tradition, the Biblical Year starts with Nisan consistently from Exodus to Ezekiel 45.

     
    • Eddie

      October 11, 2015 at 15:38

      Hi Jared, and thank you for reading and for your comment.

      I believe you have misunderstood my study. Ezra 3:6 marks the beginning of the 70 Weeks Prophecy. It was the fulfillment of the “going forth of the commandment” in Daniel 9:25. If the 70 Weeks Prophecy **begins** in the 7th month, it will **end** in the 7th month. Each anniversary of the first sacrifice made after the captivity will be celebrated in the 7th month, so the 484th year **must** begin in the 7th month. This is only logical. It is how everyone I know counts–i.e. what is next follows what came before etc.

      Moreover, the 70 Weeks Prophecy represents 10 Jubilees. The 10th day of the 7th month marks the ending of the 49th year and the beginning of the 50th year (Leviticus 25:8-10). So, although the 70th week began on the Feast of Trumpets, it wouldn’t end until the Day of Atonement (the 10th day of the month) because the 70th week represented the end of the 10th jubilee.

      Lord bless you, Jared.

       
      • mithrandirolorin

        October 11, 2015 at 15:46

        Every reference to a Decree being given is in Nisan. The only Decree that Matches is the one in Nemiah.

        The Decree’s description in Daniel 9 mentions no Temple or anything else, the focus is the Walls.

         
        • Eddie

          October 11, 2015 at 16:13

          Jared, greetings and thanks for your reply.

          It makes no difference when a decree is made, if no one acts on it. It was the “going forth of the commandment” which represented the seed cast or the very first thing done in obedience to the decree. That was the building of the altar of God and the daily sacrifice renewed after the Temple lay desolate for so many years. The altar was built and sacrifices renewed on the 1st day of the 7th month (Ezra 3:1-2, 6). This is the only date given that makes sense for the 70 Weeks Prophecy to begin.

          Concerning a temple not being mentioned by Daniel, it is understood, because the 70 Weeks prophecy involves the Temple being built. Furthermore, Ezra 4:12-24 speaks of the city and the walls being built, but when Darius stops the building, it is said that the work on the Temple (House of God) was stopped. In Ezra 5 the building began again, but when efforts were made to stop it once more, reference was made to Cyrus’ decree to rebuild the Temple that was at Jerusalem (Ezra 5:13-14).

          One cannot rebuild the Temple without rebuilding Jerusalem. If God was to be honored by rebuilding his Temple, it would be an insult to him if the city in which his Temple stood lay in ruins. It is illogical to separate the building of the Temple and the city. They shared a common wall. One cannot rebuild one without the other, and the 70 Weeks Prophecy begins by pointing to the walls and ends by taking away a sacrifice made in the Temple. How do you divorce one from the other?

          Lord bless you as you read his word.

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 11, 2015 at 19:33

          God’s Calendar begins years in Nisan, Period.

           
        • Eddie

          October 11, 2015 at 20:15

          I agree that God’s calendar begins with the month of Nisan, but does he begin all things in Nisan? According to Ezra 3 the sacrifices were begun (renewed) in the seventh month. According to Leviticus 25 the Jubilee year begins just after the 10th day of the 7th month. How do you account for this?

          Certainly God’s liturgical year begins in Nisan. It begins with the Passover–God saving Israel out of bondage which pictures Christ saving mankind out of the bondage of sin. The next season is Pentecost–where Israel received the Law and the Church received the Holy Spirit. The holy days in the 7th month **may** have something to do with Christ’s return and Judgment Day, but that’s theory.

          Are you able to show that God begins **everything** in the month of Nisan? According to your theory, the 1260 days, 1290 days and 1335 days must begin sometime in the first month. On what days would you begin counting and where would it take you, and how would you know for certain you are correct? In other words, how would your conclusion be supported by scripture?

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 12, 2015 at 23:50

          Daniel 9 deos not say the 70 weeks begins with Sacrifices, he say it begins with the Decree to rebuild the Walls.

           
        • Eddie

          October 13, 2015 at 07:47

          You need to read Daniel 9 again, my friend. The angel does **not** say the prophecy begins with a decree. He says it begins with the “going forth” of the commandment (or decree) to rebuild Jerusalem. The Hebrew word (H4161) has to do with the fruit of a matter. For example in Job 38:27 it is used for the “budding” of the tender herb. It is the “bud” that springs forth not the herb. So, too, it was the first visible work of obedience to the command that caused the prophecy to begin, not the utterance of the commandment itself.

          If this is not so, when would you begin the 70 Weeks Prophecy? Who gave the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, and when was the decree given?

          The only supportable date given is what we find in Ezra 3.

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 13, 2015 at 15:32

          If it’s the enforcement that matter, then that means the beginning of construction on the Walls.

           
        • Eddie

          October 13, 2015 at 17:26

          I already showed you that it makes no difference if it is the city, the walls or the Temple. They are all the same thing in scripture. You cannot build one without building the other. Jerusalem and the Temple had the same east wall. Read Ezra and Nehemiah concerning the building of the city and the Temple. It is all the same. They even cite the same decree by Cyrus as their authority to build. That said, the only workable date in Ezra and Nehemiah is Ezra 3–the 1st day of the 7th month. Anything else would be pure imagination.

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 13, 2015 at 23:05

          It is a Biblical fact that the Walls were not built till after the Decree in Nehemiah, that is what Nehemiah is all about.

           
        • Eddie

          October 14, 2015 at 06:45

          It is a fact that the walls weren’t begun until Nehemiah had come to Jerusalem, but what **decree** are you speaking of? Nehemiah contains no decree. A decree is something that **cannot** be changed or undone. The letters given Nehemiah in the second chapter were not decrees. He was called back by another letter from the Emperor. I have written a blog post on Nehemiah’s time spent in Jerusalem HERE. The walls weren’t finished until the Temple was finished.

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 14, 2015 at 17:02

          If you think there is no Decree in Nehemiah then you haven’t read the book.

           
        • Eddie

          October 15, 2015 at 08:18

          All you have to do to prove me wrong is quote the verse where the text claims a “decree” was commanded by the king in Nehemiah.

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 15, 2015 at 16:37

          The text of Daniel actually says Commandment. It is in Chapter 2, it is entirely what Chapter 2 is about.

           
        • Eddie

          October 15, 2015 at 17:35

          I assume the word “Daniel” in your comment is a mistake. We were discussing the book of Nehemiah at this point. It may help if you quoted the verse you have in mind. I have 24 translations of Nehemiah on my computer and none of them have “command”, “commandment” or “decree” in chapter 2.

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          October 16, 2015 at 13:29

          No, what I said Daniel I meant Daniel 9

          We know Nehemiah connects to Daniel 9 because he prays the same Prayer in Chapter 1.

           
        • Eddie

          October 17, 2015 at 00:34

          Jared, thanks for the discussion. Lord bless you as you study his word to honor him.

           
    • Eddie

      October 11, 2015 at 15:18

      Greetings Jared and thanks once more for reading my blog. I do disagree your claims in the link you provided, where you claim that Jesus’ ministry lasted for only one year. I could refer you to the Gospel of John’s three Passovers, which would point to at least a two your ministry of Jesus. Nevertheless, that wouldn’t solve our disagreement, since you try to force-fit John to agree with what you think the Synoptics claim.

      I’m left with simply asking you to take closer consideration of the word of God in your studies. Let the word of God be the word of God, and adjust your ‘doctrine’ to it, rather than the other way around.

      Lord bless you, Jared, as you read the scriptures and take them to heart.

       
  7. Lasrence Johnson

    June 24, 2015 at 22:37

    Eddie,

    From what I have discovered in my research, Jesus began his ministry in 28 or 29 CE.
    I say this because Tiberious Caeser began his reighn August 19,14CE.
    Luke tells us in Acts that Jesus was baptized during the 14th year of Tiberious Caesars reign.
    Add 3 1/2 years to that and Jesus would have been crucified in April of 32 or 33 CE.
    I believe he was baptized in 29 and was crucified on April 3. 33 CE.
    The reason I give this date is NASA has discovered a lunar eclipse on this day.

    Gods Blessings,

    Lawrence

     
    • Eddie

      June 25, 2015 at 07:55

      Greetings Lawrence and thank you for reading and for taking the time to leave your own thoughts about the beginning of Jesus’ ministry.

      The problem, as I understand it, is that we don’t know from what date Luke begins to count Tiberius’ reign. Indeed, Augustus died in 14 CE and Tiberius was the new Emperor. However, we have documentation that Tiberius reigned with Augustus for two years prior to the Emperor’s death. So, does Luke mean Tiberius’ 15th year was in 29 CE or 27 CE? Depending upon what criteria one uses, either date would be correct.

      Concerning a lunar eclipse in 33 CE, I know of none that that would block out the sunlight for 3 hours, do you? In fact, a lunar eclipse has nothing to do with blocking out the sun. While the moon may have glowed red in a lunar eclipse, what happened to the sunlight between noon and 3 PM? I don’t know what occurred in the heavens in the 1st century CE, but I believe something happened–whether or not it can be accounted for scientifically.

      Lord bless you, Lawrence, in your study of God’s word.

       
  8. mithrandirolorin

    June 4, 2015 at 14:03

    Placing Stephen’s Martyrdom 3.5 years from the Crucifixion is interesting. And I to am ok with seeing the 70th Week fulfilled by the first Advent. But the Messiah is Cut off when the Week starts not when it ends. I prove that to be 30 Ad here
    http://midseventiethweekrapture.blogspot.com/search/label/30%20AD

    It’s be interesting if Stephen war Mayrtred in the Fall of 33 AD.

     
    • Eddie

      June 4, 2015 at 19:12

      Greetings Jared(?), and thank you for reading and for your comment. Neither do I believe that Messiah was crucified at the end of the 70th week. Rather I place it in the middle of the week as per Daniel 9:27. I understand your problem with both of these views, since you go along with the **beginning** of the 70th week as per Daniel 9:26 “After three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off…” However, I believe that understanding is too literal for the context. How long after the 69th week do we put the crucifixion? …a day? …a week? …less or more? I believe Daniel gives us the best idea in 9:27 — “the midst of the week” or 3 1/2 years into the 70th week.

      I read your two posts, but I’m not convinced that Jesus’ ministry lasted only one year. On the contrary, a simple reading of John gives one a 2 year ministry of Jesus, and if we couple John’s record with that of Luke, we find an additional 1 1/2 years is added to Jesus’ public ministry. I put Jesus’ crucifixion in 31 AD, but can accept a 30 AD ministry if the 15th year of Tiberius begins in the fall of 26 AD. I have it at 27 AD.

      I don’t try to identify the beginning of the 70 Weeks Prophecy through history, because so much wrong has been committed by well meaning people trying to pinpoint the beginning of the prophecy that anything I come up with would be considered convoluted (but for the record, I put Stephen’s death in 34 AD, and counting back 490 years would put us in 457 BC). I merely conclude that folks in Jesus’ day were looking of the Messiah. This tells me that the 70 Weeks Prophecy was not yet fulfilled in his day, so I used the prophetic days of Daniel and Revelation (1260, 1290 & 1335) to indicate the all important 70th Week of Daniel’s prophecy. They work out only if Jesus’ crucifixion was on a Wednesday. If that can be given, then the days begin and end on one of the Jewish annual Holy Day Sabbaths or an important day within the Festival period. The day of the Wave-Sheaf Offering is the only exception, and it is an important day during the Passover festival and for knowing the day of Firstfruits (Pentecost). I don’t believe such an overlay of the days falling on important Holy Days during Jesus’ ministry or at the completion of the 70th week to be coincidental. Nevertheless, if you are locked into your interpretation of a single year for Jesus’ public ministry and his crucifixion before the 70th week really starts, you are welcome to your understanding, and I’ll wish you well in your study of God’s word.

       
      • mithrandirolorin

        June 4, 2015 at 21:51

        The fifteenth year has Tiberius has nothing to do with Jesus.

        The “Midst” of the week in verse 27 is mistranslated, it should be for Half of the Week. It still places it at the beginning.

         
        • Eddie

          June 5, 2015 at 06:21

          Luke 3 has John the Baptist beginning his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius. John baptized Jesus, and the context seems to imply Jesus began his ministry not long afterwards.

          If you are a Hebrew scholar, I would have to give your opinion much weight, however, if you are not a scholar, by what authority do you claim Daniel 9:27 is a mistranslation?

          The Septuagint does translate verse 27 differently, but both translations are within the bounds of the Hebrew and the Greek. The Septuagint has it: “And one week shall establish the covenant with many. And in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of the time an end shall be put to the desolation. (Daniel 9:27 LXX)

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          June 5, 2015 at 09:02

          NO the context doesn’t, Paul said John completed his Course. Jesus turned in 29-30 AD

          http://midseventiethweekrapture.blogspot.com/2015/02/i-think-jesus-was-born-near-december-25.html

           
        • Eddie

          June 6, 2015 at 06:42

          Greetings Jared. You don’t seem to want to discuss anything. You simply deny or ignore what I claim and make a statement of your own, and off you go until I respond once more. Well, I’ll try one more time to inspire discussion. I read your blog-post linked above, but I found the study skewed. The late testimonies I reject outright, since Constantine virtually made Christianity the state religion and pagans began joining the church in vast numbers. Many were illiterate and had to be taught the Gospel in some way. For better or worse the church used the pagan holidays and “Christianized” them in a manner that preached the Gospel to the illiterate. Whether one agrees with the method or not, it at least taught illiterate folks about Christ. For other instances you seem to accept early Christian literature if it fits your theory and poo-poo the parts that don’t, saying that the ancients were close and only a little off the mark. Of course, your understanding is “on target” and that’s always nice! :-)

          You say that John’s Gospel isn’t chronological and that helps your theory, because then you can deny that Tabernacles in John 7, 8 & 9 comes after the Passover mentioned in John 6. It’s really great when you can use scripture that way, but I am bound by conscience to treat it more fairly. I hope you understand. So, unless you come up with something that invites discussion, I’ll bid you good-bye here and now. Lord bless you in your studies as you yield to his Spirit that is in you.

          P.S. I’ll approve any response you make here and/or in the other two places you are leaving comments, whether or not I reply to you after this (which isn’t likely).

           
        • mithrandirolorin

          June 6, 2015 at 08:31

          When the Sypoptics mention the same event John 6 depicts it depicted it as approaching the Passover of his Death.

           
        • Eddie

          June 6, 2015 at 17:27

          OR… your understanding of the Synoptics is wrong and John shows there are at least three Passovers in Jesus’ public ministry.

          John 6:25-59 represents not one discourse but a series of teaching sessions that Jesus gave at the synagogue at Capernaum (John 6:59). In the intervening sessions he healed at Gennesaret (Matthew 14:34-36; Mark 6:53-56), ministered in Tyre and Sidon (Mark 7:24-30), healed and fed 4000 at the Decapolis (Matthew 14:29-39; Mark 7:31-37; Mark 8:1-10), and preached at Dalmanutha in Magdala (cp. Matthew 15:39-16:1-12 with Mark 8:10-26). The theme is the same in all. Jesus said that he alone is able to satisfy man’s inner hunger (John 6:35-40). Elsewhere, he taught that man’s inner life is already defiled and cannot be cured using outside methods (Matthew 15:1-14; Mark 7:1-13). The healing of the gentile woman’s daughter was an inner healing (Mark 7:29-30); the 4000 were fed and their inner hunger was satisfied. Throughout it all, the Pharisees, cognizant only of an outer realm, were continually asking for a sign (Matthew 16:1-4; Mark 8:11-13; cp. John 6:30). Jesus pointed to the scriptures that spoke of himself (John 6:45) and said that inner life comes only by him (John 6:53-58), but no one understood (John 6:52, 60).

          All this is going on when scripture is compared with scripture, but you seem to want to erase it all by forcing John into a mold that does injustice to word of God. How can you do this and claim you believe the Bible is God’s word?

          It John 6 occurs about the time of the Passover, then Jesus would have had to hurry to Jerusalem. The text doesn’t show him or the disciples doing that. Instead, after the feeding of the 5000 he ministered to all those places mentioned above and still had time to go up to Caesarea Philippi. I don’t see how you can justify your claims.

           
  9. oke

    November 5, 2014 at 15:52

    Very interesting Eddie. I also liked the way you dialogued with Jim. I don’t know why some make eschatology a litmus test for fellowship. I’m studying end times, reading Kenneth Gentry, which seems to be in line with your views. I’ve also seen some astronomical work on dating the conception, birth, and death of Christ at http://www.bethlehemstar.net I bring this up because his birth falls on Rosh Hashanah by Dr. Larson’s findings and I thought that perhaps you would find his site interesting. He also has a documentary of his findings in the stars on Youtube.

    What I’m wrestling with in my mind is the possibility that the 70th week could possibly run concurrently with part of the 69th. (Kind of the opposite approach of a dispensationalist.) My strongest view in my mind, and this isn’t very strong, is that why wouldn’t the angel have told Daniel that in the Midst of the 70th week, Messiah would be killed? Rather he says after the 69th, and like you mentioned “after” is a very undefined period of time… But I was thinking that the dating of Dr. Larson’s materials and scholarship would lead to a crucifixion of 33 A.D. at the end of the 69th week. (Pretty much immediately after) And that perhaps this last 7 was one that encompasses part of this 69th week (with the 3.5 years of ministry), puts an end to sacrifice at Messiah’s Death (Hebrews 10:18) and culminates at Stephens Stoning as you have suggested.

    My other thought is that perhaps this last 7 is a period of days, not years and that the covenant (of Jer. 31:31-33) was confirmed by his RESURRECTION in the midst of his week as Ed J. Young’s commentary points out that it is the “midst” of the week, not “middle.” But this solution does not satisfy me either because why switch from weeks of years to that of days and what would be the terminus of that “week”?

    Your thoughts on a possible concurrent week? Thanks brother!

     
    • Eddie

      November 6, 2014 at 09:36

      Greetings Oke, and thanks for reading and for your kind words concerning my dialogue with ‘Jim’!

      Concerning Kenneth Gentry, I’ll have to look him up on Amazon and check out one of his books. I haven’t heard of him until your mention of him, but I looked at his website, and he seems to be a prolific writer.

      Concerning Dr. Larson, I don’t know who is copying whom here, but the late Dr Earnest Martin wrote a similar book which you can find and read HERE. The book is entitled “The Star that Astonished the World”. I based a number of my blog posts on Dr. Martin’s findings and refer to him is some of my postings. Perhaps “copying” is too strong a word. They may have known each other, and even collaborated with one another, but the relationship didn’t work out—don’t know, and to be honest, don’t care to know. I would hate to think either of them was profiting off the work of the other.

      Concerning the 70th week running concurrently with the 69th, why 70 weeks of years then? I believe it took 7 weeks of years (49 years) to rebuild the Temple and the walls of Jerusalem (just as the angel predicts), and I believe it took another 62 weeks of years to come to the Messiah, which I take to be the beginning of Jesus’ ministry. The beginning of the 70 weeks, according to Ezra, occurred on Rosh Hashanah, and I believe Jesus officially began his ministry in Nazareth (according to Luke) on Rosh Hashanah! I did a study of Daniels “days” – 1260, 1290 and 1335 days – which I presume to incorporate the 70th week of years. They begin and end either on a Jewish annual Holy Day or on a day that is important within those days, and point to important events in Jesus’ ministry (or in the case of the 1290 days to the end of the prophecy, which I presume to be announced by the shedding of Stephen’s blood—see Revelation 12:14). It is quite odd that they would do so, if that were not important. They also work out only if Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday (or, according to Jewish reckoning, the day beginning Tuesday sundown to Wednesday sundown). I realize ‘Wednesday’ is not the traditional day, but, as I read the account of Jesus’ death in the Bible, the traditional ‘Friday’ crucifixion doesn’t work out, but Wednesday does.

      I don’t know how Dr. Larson arrives at his conclusion that Jesus was crucified in 33 AD or that this year is the end of the 69th week of years in Daniel’s prophecy (perhaps if I read his work on his website I’ll find out). Personally, I worked out what I thought the 70th week should look like and then decided where the 70 Weeks prophecy should begin. This seems to be like first making my case and then making sure the ‘evidence’ proves it the way I want it to. Nevertheless, I couldn’t do otherwise, because folks before me used these days to prove anything they wanted, so no matter what I would do now, it would look dishonest in my reckoning.

      The reason for all these false methods is that most eschatological theologians base their works on the work of one Claudius Ptolemy, a 2nd century AD pagan astronomer. Dr. Martin has shown that his work was false, and I believe Dr. Martin’s studies on the matter. What this means is, one doesn’t have a fixed date for the beginning of the 70 Weeks Prophecy, like so many eschatological students would like to have. Nevertheless, all that is based upon a false premise, a premise greatly desired by religious folks who really wanted to be able to prove Jesus came at the correct time according to Daniel. All I am able to say is that the Bible shows that folks during Jesus lifetime (birth to death) looked for his coming, showing that Jews at that time looked for the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Even Jesus mentions Daniel in his Olivet Prophecy, showing that Daniel’s Prophecy was not yet complete during Jesus’ ministry.

      Concerning the final week of years being a week of days, I agree with your suspicion that there is no reason to believe there would be a sudden switch in the method of reckoning Daniel’s prophecy, and that without any warning. It is not something I am willing to trust. I think that folks who do this kind of thing are ‘reaching’ to prove something they don’t know how to prove otherwise. If I come to this point, I simply tell myself that something is wrong with the rest of my study, and I begin again.

       
  10. Bill

    August 1, 2014 at 15:09

    Eddie … interesting commentary … but I’m surprised that nobody else has questioned you on a key point … your third paragraph ends with the sentence: “The Messiah was to come at the beginning of the 70th week or 483 years after the first sacrifice was offered by the returning captives.” … please help me understand how 70 weeks equals 483 years? … perhaps that’s just a syntax issue and you are really saying Christ would come at either (1) the beginning of the 70th week or (2) at the beginning of the 483rd year after the first sacrifice, whichever coincides with his appearance … if you could clear this up I might be able to follow your argument … thanks.

     
    • Eddie

      August 1, 2014 at 22:04

      Hi Bill, and thanks for reading and for your question. I’m always happy to discuss these things with folks who stop by. 70 full weeks of years would be 490 years. The beginning of the 70th week would be 483 years. Christ’s ministry was to fulfill the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy. I hope this clears up my lack of clarity, but if not, don’t hesitate to write back. Lord bless.

       
      • Jim Blevins (@jim_blevinslaw)

        August 2, 2014 at 09:08

        Daniel 9:27 is not the Messiah and it is so stated in Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15 and in 2Thessalonians 2:4. The Messiah was cutoff at the end of the 69th week (Daniel 9:25-26), not in the middle of the 70th week. The problem is that this whole document is based on “I believe” without any scripture to back it up.

        Why is Michael never called the son of God any where in the Bible or why the Son of God calls His self Jesus in Revelation 22:16 and throughout Revelation starting in Revelation 1:1? In Daniel 10:13 Michael is called “one” of the chief princes indicating that there are more princes which, if it were true, would simply make Jesus an equal to many more princes.

         
        • Eddie

          August 2, 2014 at 09:54

          Greetings Jim and thank you for reading and for your comment. Disagreements are welcome, because I like to test what “I believe” to be sure I am not basing what “I believe” on nothing. I like to think that what I write is based upon God’s word. Anyway, that’s what “I believe” to be so.

          The 70 Weeks Prophecy is fulfilled because what the angel declared in v.24 has been fulfilled in Christ’s ministry. I did a study on the six things that the angel declared it would take 70 Weeks (of years) to complete. That study is in 7 blogs and can be found HERE.

          Concerning Daniel 11:31, this is Antiochus Epiphanies. Jesus spoke the word of Matthew 24 to believers with him, and they were the ones who had to consider Matthew 24:15. Do you have a scripture that would lead us to believe otherwise? As for 2Thessalonians 2:4 Paul is speaking of a man of sin who lived in his day, whose works were against the Church of Christ at that time, and he expected the things he claimed in his epistle to be fulfilled in his expected lifetime. Are you able to show otherwise with scripture or are you simply stating what you believe?

          Concerning Michael, are you aware that the Angel of the Lord who is referred to as YHWH is not one time referred to as the Son of God? Are you aware that Jesus is not even once called the Angel of the Lord, but who else could he be if scripture refers to this Angel as Almighty God in Genesis 48?

          Concerning Daniel 10:13, the problem is that the Hebrew word can be translated into “one” or “first”, but the meaning would be changed dramatically if it were translated into “first of the chief princes (or heads)” and is so translated by Young’s Literal Translation.

           
        • Jim Blevins (@jim_blevinslaw)

          August 2, 2014 at 10:56

          You deny Matt 24:29-31 which come after the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. If your assumption was true, Christ would have already come and the elect would be gone; for the elect to be gone, both resurrections would be complete because the living will not precede the living 1Thessalonians 4:15; 2Thessalonians 4:16-17 are the same as Matthew 24:30-31 and all of this comes after the tribulation in Matthew 24:29 which comes during the time of the desolator sitting in the temple.

          2Thessalonian 2:4 parallels Matthew 24:15, Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31-37 in that all three of these verses describe the man who will declare himself god. The Jewish sacrifice to God is still in existence today and will be removed.

          Where is “Antiochus Epiphanies” in the Bible? Where is the Angel of the Lord who is referred to as YHWH? I am well aware that Jesus is never called the Angel of God – He is the Son of God and no angel. The Hebrew word ekh-awd has many definitions, but the primary for the word is “one” which the translators used and is used in every version of the Bible because they realize that Michael is one of many angels and not the Son of God. Jude 1:9 calls Michael an archangel meaning that he is a chief leader of his angels.

           
        • Eddie

          August 2, 2014 at 16:51

          Concerning Matthew 24:29-31, what have I denied, in your opinion? I don’t believe you have any idea what I believe. You seem to be making great assumptions about me.

          Matthew 24:29-30 do, indeed, occur after the abomination of desolation is set up. Do you know what that is? Do you know when it occurred, or do you think it is yet to occur?

          Concerning the coming of Christ, all the writers of the New Testament who speak of Christ’s coming believed he would come in their expected lifetimes. Those men were appointed by God to write the New Testament. I, for one, refuse to say they were wrong. This means that the coming of Christ would have to be in two phases. First, he came in the sense of his judging Jerusalem as he promised to do in the high priest’s lifetime (cp. Matthew 26:64), and secondly, he will come to the earth as predicted in Acts 1:11 when this present age is complete.

          Concerning the tribulation, Christ spoke of the trial that came upon the Jews, including the Church and culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 CE. If you are speaking of another tribulation, perhaps you could use scripture to show when they would be.

          Concerning your “parallels”, you have not proved your case. All you are doing is **saying** they parallel one another. Matthew 24:15 does speak of the abomination that brings desolation, and 2Thessalonians 2:4 does speak of the man behind the abomination, but Daniel 9:27 tells of Christ cutting a covenant in the midst of the 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy. Daniel 11:31-37 is speaking of Antiochus Epiphanes. You are putting all these scriptures together, but they refer to different things, not the same.

          Concerning where Antiochus Epiphanes appears in the Bible, if you follow the rise and fall of the kings of the north and of the south in Daniel 11, you will come to Antiochus Epiphanes in history at Daniel 11:21, and 1Maccabees tells of his plundering the Temple and sacrificing swine’s flesh on the altar of God. None of those kings of Daniel 11 are named in the Bible. It is prophecy, after all.

          Concerning the Angel of the Lord being Almighty God, Genesis 48:3 says Almighty God appeared to Jacob at Luz, which place was renamed Bethel (Genesis 28:19), but it was the Angel of God (the Lord) who appeared to him there according to Genesis 31:11-13. This Angel is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as we can see in Jacob’s blessing of Joseph’s sons:

          And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth. (Genesis 48:15-16 KJV ~ emphasis mine)

          Moreover, the Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses in the bush in Exodus 3:2. Yet, when the Angel spoke to Moses the text says it was the Lord (Exodus 3:4) who was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Exodus 3:6). And, when Moses asked his name, he told him he was “I AM” (Exodus 3:14).

          Concerning the Hebrew word “echad”, Young’s Literal Translation renders it “first”! What can I say? So, Michael would be the “first” or leader of all the princes of heaven. Indeed he is called the Archangel in Jude 1:9, but all that means is he is Lord of all the angels.

           
        • Jim Blevins (@jim_blevinslaw)

          August 2, 2014 at 18:17

          You deny Matt 24:29-31 by stating that Matt 24:15 has already taken place.

          Show me one single scripture that states anyone in the Bible said “Christ will come in my lifetime”; assumption.
          2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day [is] as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

          You assume that the destruction of the temple and the slaughter of the Jews in 70AD was the tribulation, show me the facts in the Bible.

          Dan 9:26 the Messiah is cutoff after 62 weeks + the 9 weeks of Dan 9:25.
          Dan 9:26 And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
          Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

          Exodus 33:20 But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”
          Judges 6:11 Now the Angel of the LORD came and sat under the terebinth tree which [was] in Ophrah, which [belonged] to Joash the Abiezrite, while his son Gideon threshed wheat in the winepress, in order to hide [it] from the Midianites.
          Genesis 48:15-16 makes no statement about the Angel of God being God.

          “one of the chief princes”.
          Strongs H259
          – Original: אחד
          – Transliteration: ‘echad
          – Phonetic: ekh-awd’
          – Definition:
          1. one (number)
          a. one (number)
          b. each, every
          c. a certain
          d. an (indefinite article)
          e. only, once, once for all
          f. one…another, the one…the other, one after another, one by one
          g. first
          h. eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal)
          – Origin: a numeral from H258
          – TWOT entry: 61
          – Part(s) of speech: Adjective

          From ISBE: “archangel” or chief angel, occurs.
          1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first
          Matthew 24:31 “And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

           
        • Eddie

          August 2, 2014 at 20:13

          You deny Matt 24:29-31 by stating that Matt 24:15 has already taken place.

          Is this what you believe or can you support your understanding with scripture?

          Show me one single scripture that states anyone in the Bible said “Christ will come in my lifetime”; assumption.

          What kind of question is this? Can you offer a single scripture that Jesus would delay his coming for 2000 years (or more)?

          Jesus told the high priest **he** would see Jesus coming in the clouds (Matthew 26:64). Paul told the Romans that God would crush the head of Satan beneath **their** feet shortly (Romans 16:20). In Romans 13:12 Paul said the night was already near its end, and the day was at hand—even nearer than Paul thought at first (v.11).

          You assume that the destruction of the temple and the slaughter of the Jews in 70AD was the tribulation, show me the facts in the Bible.

          Do you play by the same rules you require of others? Show me in the Bible that the tribulation of which Jesus spoke concerned people 2000 years (or more) later.

          Concerning Daniel 9:26, Messiah will be cut off after the 69 weeks are complete—how long after? Is it immediately afterward …a month …a year …after 3 ½ years? The text is not clear, but the text does tell us that a covenant will be cut in the middle of the 70th week—that’s 3 ½ years after the 69th week of years.

          Concerning Daniel 9:27, who will confirm the Covenant? Is it the Messiah or the prince that shall come? It isn’t clear according to the Hebrew, but look at it in the Septuagint, the Bible of the first Christians:

          And after the sixty-two weeks, the Anointed One (i.e. the Messiah) shall be killed, and there is no judgment in Him. And He (i.e. the Messiah) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince (i.e. Titus, the Roman general) that is to come: they (the Jews) shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed He shall appoint the city to desolations. And one week shall establish the covenant with many. And in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink offering shall be taken away (i.e. Jesus—God’s Sacrifice and Drink Offering): and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of the time an end shall be put to the desolation. [Daniel 9:26-27 LXX – parenthesis mine]

          Concerning Genesis 48:15-16, it is just reading 101, my friend. I cannot read for you, so what can I say.

          Concerning your quotation from Strongs, I offered you the translation as done by Young’s Literal Translation. Strongs’ “g” says **first** is a possible translation of the Hebrew word, and the Young’s translators rendered echad as **first**.

           
        • Jim Blevins (@jim_blevinslaw)

          August 2, 2014 at 21:05

          Here’s another one for you: Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.

          Matt 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
          The two thousand years you ask for is a false number; it could be another thousand years – I don’t know, I simply know that the 70th week is unfulfilled and the mark of the beast still has not happened.

          Matt 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
          30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
          If the tribulation happened in 70AD, then where is Jesus?

          Matt 24:31 “And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
          And why are the elect still here?

          H259 states that the primary word is “one” with “first” falling much later.

          You are leading people down a path of destruction.

           
        • Eddie

          August 2, 2014 at 22:41

          Here’s another one for you: Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light.

          I have no idea what you are getting at here. I referred to this verse in support of my position. I fail to see how it supports yours.

          Matt 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

          The two thousand years you ask for is a false number; it could be another thousand years – I don’t know, I simply know that the 70th week is unfulfilled and the mark of the beast still has not happened.

          If you aren’t reading into the text, **how** do you know the 70th week isn’t fulfilled? You have absolutely no scripture that shows it is separated from the previous 69 weeks. No other prophecy is broken up in such a fashion. What is the mark of the beast and how do you know it has yet to occur? It seems to me you are making many assumptions that aren’t based upon scripture—you merely **believe** it, which is what you accuse me of doing.

          Matt 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

          If the tribulation happened in 70AD, then where is Jesus?

          Jesus’ parousia or coming in Matthew 24 has to do with his coming in judgment against Jerusalem, not his return to this earth. It has to do with his reigning as Messiah and taking the reins away from Satan. The **sign** that the Son of Man is in the heavens is his judgment against Jerusalem, which he predicted in Matthew 26:64. The stars falling and the darkening of the sun and the moon have to do with the Jewish nation being destroyed—no longer does the sun shine on their land; no longer do Jews lead the nation, because as of 70 CE they had no land. They had no land for roughly 1900 years, and didn’t control Jerusalem again until the Six Day War of 1967. You seem to want to trash history in favor of an interpretation you cannot prove. The Bible is about the Jews, God’s people, yet you wish to conclude that nothing in the New Testament refers to the destruction of the Jewish nation or the Temple at Jerusalem. Rather, you seem to want to trade this solid historical evidence, to which the Olivet Prophecy clearly points, for an interpretation involving the Church in the end of this current age.

          The tribulation to which both Daniel and the Olivet Prophecy point is the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple; Jesus is in the heavens reigning as Messiah. You seem to want him to be on earth, reigning in Jerusalem. That hasn’t occurred yet, and there doesn’t seem to be a timetable for that.

          Matt 24:31 “And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

          And why are the elect still here?

          Angelic beings have nothing to do with spreading the Gospel. The **angels** are human messengers (angels = messengers in the Greek). We—the Church—are sent out with the great sound of a trumpet (Jesus) and we are presently gathering God’s elect into the Body of Christ.

          H259 states that the primary word is “one” with “first” falling much later.
          You are leading people down a path of destruction.

          Concerning echad (H259), does it ever mean **first** according to you? If so, under what circumstances could it mean **first**?

          Concerning my “leading people down a path of destruction”, have I even implied I am a leader of anyone or anything? All I am doing is blogging. You found me and read a few of my studies and commented to show your opposition to my pov. That is all this is. It is not a church split; it is not para-church organization. I seek no followers, and as far as I know, no one claims to be following me. From time to time I get an attaboy and other times I’m an infidel leading people down the path of destruction. I take the good with the bad, and condemn no one for their opinion against me and often caution folks who seem to praise me too much. I tell them I am human and will eventually disappoint.

          Do you have anything else? If so shoot. I’m still here.

           
        • Jim Blevins (@jim_blevinslaw)

          August 3, 2014 at 06:24

          I knew this was a useless endeavor when I started after seeing “I believe” in your article. You, like so many others, will turn on God like a Rattle Snake when the tribulation comes.

           
    • Roger

      August 1, 2014 at 22:36

      Bill, what is amazing about this whole thing is that the Bible is being twisted to the point of breaking. Satan has so wrapped up his followers in the pre-tribulation rapture that they are blinder than the Jews. The first thing that you have to notice in this article is that there are no facts, everything is “I believe” with no scriptural validation.

      The three verses that are being pushed are Dan 9:25-27. Verse 26 says the Messiah will be cut off after 62 weeks plus the 7 weeks in verse 25 making 69 weeks. This article is stating that verse 27 is talking about the Messiah being cut off in the middle of the week and that is false; the person in verse 27 is the one in Matt 24:15 and also in 2Thess 2:4. The 70th week is still unfulfilled and the rapture will not take place until after the tribulation and the last (seventh) trumpet is blown (Matt 24:29-31; 1Cor 15:51-52; 1Thess 4:16-17).

       
  11. Steve

    January 17, 2014 at 14:21

    These beliefs in this blog are completely in line with the teaching of the Seventh-day Adventists. I actually thought you might be an Adventist after reading this blog. We do find the same biblical evidence for the 70 week prophecy, see the stoning of Stephen marking the conclusion of the last week, and believe Michael is Jesus.

    Thanks for a great post and God bless!

     
    • Eddie

      January 17, 2014 at 18:07

      I’ve never investigated the beliefs of Adventists, although for about two or three years my brother was one. but that was about 30 years ago. It’s nice to know that I’m not alone in what I understand. Thanks for your comment, and may the Lord bless you as well.

       
  12. Ryan

    January 4, 2014 at 21:01

    Jesus and Michael are not, I repeat, are not the same person ever. This is a grave misunderstanding and should be taken serious. The angels are not worthy of praise, they are fellow servants and brethren that have the testimony of of Jesus( see revelation 19:17.) An angel is not God nor God and angel. God the father is a spirit ( see john 4:24) and the embodiment is the son, Jesus, and the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Ghost was poured of Jesus at the cross and began leading the true believer at Pentecost and still leads today. Don’t confuse the creator with the created. The only angel that puts himself even with God is satan himself. I would consider strongly what you are saying and teaching( see Galatians 1:6-9.) Jesus is alpha and omega, the first and the last, the truth the way and the life and no man comes unto the Father but by him. He is not an angel, he is the fullness of God.

     
    • Eddie

      January 7, 2014 at 09:17

      Greetings Ryan, and thank you for reading and for your comment. I’m sorry I missed your comment a few days ago. I think it came with two other comments about the same day and I totally missed yours.

      I agree in spirit with your reply, but let me explain. I don’t believe Michael is an angelic being. I believe he is God. The Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament is called Almighty God by Jacob. The Angel of the Lord is not an angelic being, he is God–the God who became Jesus. If you wish to see my study on this subject, click on the link above concerning the Angel of the Lord. I think you will agree he is not an angelic being. I can assure you that many evangelical pastors agree with me on the subject of the Angel of the Lord being Jesus. Nevertheless, few would also agree Jesus is Michael. This is because most Christians believe Michael is a mere angel. I don’t believe he is. I believe Archangel is a title not a description of his person. Michael is the only being referred to as **archangel**. It means he is the leader of all angels. Jesus is King over mankind. This doesn’t make him a mere human. He is God. He is ruler of heaven and earth.

      Lord bless you, Ryan.

       
    • Roger

      January 7, 2014 at 09:34

      Forget it Ryan, you are wasting your time trying to explain the truth. This is the Seventh Day Adventist view and they have a different bible which is of the “human” spritual and not factual. There are many things stated in this blog that no scripture can be produced to prove.

       
      • Eddie

        January 7, 2014 at 18:29

        Just to make something a bit clearer. I don’t believe the Seventh Day Adventists claim Michael is Jesus. The Jehovah’s Witnesses do, and they, not the Seventh Day Adventists use a different translation of the Bible (their own) than other Christians. I am neither an Adventist nor a Jehovah’s Witness. Other than that, believe as you wish.

         
    • Roger

      January 7, 2014 at 18:49

      Eddie, your timeline for the 70 weeks is SDA, they are the only ones that teach that Stephen is involved in it. The JWs do not even believe in Christ and neither do you since you state that Michael is God. Your statements do not hold to any Biblical scriptures.

      One thing you will find, I do not use the term “I believe” and I never will – I know what the Word of God says. Micheal spoke with and stood in front of Daniel:

      Exodus 33:20 (NKJV) But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”

      John1:18 (NKJV) No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared [Him.]

       
      • Eddie

        January 8, 2014 at 07:57

        They may teach something about Stephen concerning the 70 Weeks. I’ll have to bow to your knowledge on that one, because I don’t know, nor do I care enough to investigate it. It has been my experience to find that JW’s do believe in Christ; they just don’t believe he is God. There are also issues with how they view salvation etc., but I’ve found they do believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

        I hadn’t realized that believing that Michael is God is a deal breaker. Nevertheless, I am not intimidated by men’s understanding of the Gospel. I see myself as chewing up the chicken and spitting out the bones, so to speak. What men teach have value, but I need to beware of error. I never try to see whose side I’m on, I just study the Scriptures and believe as I am led.

        I am not aware that Michael stood before Daniel. I know Gabriel did, but Michael, no. Yet, even if he had, would seeing his face be any different from what Abraham or Lot saw when they spoke with YHWH? We are also told that Moses and the elders of Israel saw God (Exodus 24:9-10). They just didn’t see him in his glory, which is the meaning behind Exodus 33:20. Moses asked to see God is his glory, but could only see his back. In any event, you are welcome to believe as you wish.

         
    • Roger

      January 8, 2014 at 12:59

      I did err on Michael standing before Daniel, it was Gabriel and Michael agreed with him (Dan 10:21); Dan 10:13 serves the same purpose stating that Michael is “one of the princes” and not “Lord” nor “God”: But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. The fact remains that God cannot look upon sin – My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?. To call Michael God or Lord is heretical blasphemy.

       
      • Eddie

        January 9, 2014 at 08:35

        Heretical and blasphemy is an opinion, and it is an opinion I don’t share, obviously.

        Concerning Daniel 10:13, the actual wording is ‘one of the chief princes.’ How I see this is Michael is one of the Princes at the beginning (chief means: first, beginning, first in place time and rank). I believe Daniel refers to the Godhead in Daniel 4:17 calling God “the Watchers”. I think it was John Gill’s commentary that pointed this out to me at first. I thought about it quite awhile before I agreed. I think Daniel may have had an illumination concerning the Godhead and had trouble expressing it. I am not troubled with the wording of Daniel 10:13.

        Concerning God not being able to look upon sin, I believe that is an error that has done much damage to Christianity’s understanding of the Gospel. The Scripture is: Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity… (Habakkuk 1:13 KJV), but the KJV’s English doesn’t convey the sense properly. Notice the same Scripture from a different translation: You are too just to tolerate evil; you are unable to condone wrongdoing… (Habakkuk 1:13 NET.) This and other translations, in my opinion, give the proper sense.

        Concerning “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me, do you really believe the Father forsook his Son? Do you really believe Jesus ‘thought’ he was forsaken by his Father? The teaching that either of these propositions is true is baloney. Sorry, but there simply isn’t a kinder manner to express it. It is **impossible** for God to deny himself (2Timothy 2:13), and when Jesus was hanging on the cross, the Father was **IN** him reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing our trespasses (2Corinthians 5:19). What was Jesus thinking when he uttered these words? They are the opening lines of Psalm 22. when a Rabbi uttered the opening lines of a Scripture, he expected his disciples to know the rest of the Scripture and recall his meaning. The Psalm ends in hope of a resurrection. EVERYONE at the foot of the cross, the chief priests, scribes, Pharisees, soldiers and even the two robbers crucified with him were saying that God had forsaken Jesus. Jesus uttered these words at the 9th hour (Matthew 27:46)–the hour of prayer according to Acts 3:1, and when he did the darkness that had engulfed the land began to disappear–remember the darkness was from the 6th to the 9th hours (Matthew 27:45). Nevertheless, you are welcome to believe as you wish. I don’t want to appear as one undermining your faith.

        May the Lord bless you, Roger, as you seek to understand his word.

         
    • Roger

      January 9, 2014 at 09:02

      Eddie, the problem is “I believe” without any scriptural validity. Michael – “one of”, how many Gods are there? Dan 4:17 states nothing about the “watchers” being Gods. John Gill is a man and knows nothing beyond what the Bible says and anything else is false.

      In a nutshell: Mark7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

       
      • Eddie

        January 9, 2014 at 09:56

        We **all** know nothing beyond what the Bible says. I referred to John Gill’s commentary, because you are of he opinion that I am a heretic, so I wished to point to someone who is not considered so by evangelical Christianity. I presumed you believe that God is: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Am I wrong in this presumption? If not, then the term ‘Watchers’ in Daniel 4:17, is a legitimate understanding. Of course if you are a “Jesus Only” person, I can understand your being opposed to this, and I don’t wish to put down your belief about God. I try not to do such things, but sometimes I am drawn into a debate/discussion by those who want that sort of thing.

        Anyway, sorry we don’t see eye to eye on these things. May God bless you in your study of His word.

         
    • Roger

      January 9, 2014 at 13:38

      God is not Father, Son and Holy Spirit, this is blasphemy and absolutely denies who God is in His singleness and all powerful deity. Jesus is the Son of God; the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. Show me “trinity” in the Bible.

      John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

       
      • Eddie

        January 9, 2014 at 14:08

        I’m already involved in a discussion concerning the Godhead. I will tell you what I have tried to tell that person. I do not discuss the Trinity for the same reason I don’t discuss John Gill, Jameson-Fausset-and Brown, Barns’ Notes or any other work of men. I will discuss the Bible with you, if you desire to enter into such a debate / discussion, and how the Scriptures speak of God. If you should so desire to enter into this discussion, I would prefer that I create a page for it to post on the top of my blog rather than here where the discussion would be lost to the reader after it is complete (unless the reader stumbles upon it by accident). Let me know if you are willing to continue, and I’ll direct you to the correct place where we can carry on our discussion. I’ll let you give it a title, provided you can do so in one or two words.

         
    • Roger

      January 9, 2014 at 14:17

      What’s going on, you brought the subject up about the trinity? I do not read commentaries.

       
      • Eddie

        January 9, 2014 at 14:27

        Most Christians believe the Trinity is an accurate description of God. I mentioned “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” to express a point. Obviously, the point wouldn’t be received by folks who don’t believe God can be expressed that way. I meant no insult. You immediately took issue with my presumption, saying it was blasphemous, demanding that ‘Trinity’ be shown in the Bible. I assumed you wished to continue in this discussion, was I wrong?

        I don’t mean to twist anyone’s arm concerning a discussion. I was just trying to be accommodating if you desired such a discussion. Obviously, you don’t wish to do that, and that’s okay with me. Sorry I brought it up.

         
    • Roger

      January 9, 2014 at 14:41

      Eddie, I take no offense and I hope you don’t, simply a discussion and a way for everyone to learn. When a discussion takes place about Christianity, the first thing that always comes up is “I believe” and I will never accept that because most of those beliefs come from someone reading something that someone else wrote – commentary. I have been told that you do not have salvation if you are not baptized, some say that you must speak in tongues, neither is in the Bible. I hope for God’s blessings on everyone because the only thing that we have is hope.

       
      • Eddie

        January 9, 2014 at 14:50

        I am not a judge of another man’s servants. If you claim Jesus as your Savior, who am I to say you are not. The robber on the cross wasn’t baptized, nor is there any evidence he spoke in tongues, yet the Lord said he (the robber) would be with him (Jesus) in paradise. I just try to understand the word of God. I pray for enlightenment, and expect God to answer my prayer. I am his to do with as he pleases, whether or not other folks agree or disagree with me or my place in him.

         
    • Roger

      January 9, 2014 at 14:58

      We certainly agree on what you said. One thing is sure, we will be judged by Him who died for us and not ourselves. To say that we have salvation is just plain arrogant since we have become the judge of ourselves – Paul: I judge not even myself.

       
      • Eddie

        January 9, 2014 at 15:13

        What do you make of 1Corinthians 1:18 or 2Corinthians 2:15? I have a blog on this subject if you care to read it. It can be found HERE. I’m not trying to get you to read anything, it is just there if you care to drop by. In any case, I think we can be confident of our salvation, not because of our own faithfulness, but because God is faithful to us. Nevertheless, you may believe as you wish.

         
  13. Roger

    December 29, 2013 at 06:51

    Dan 9:26 says the Messiah would be cut off (killed) after 69 weeks and this article states Jesus did not die until 69.5 weeks.

     
    • Eddie

      December 29, 2013 at 08:19

      Greetings Roger and thank you for reading and especially for taking the time to offer a comment / question. Daniel 9:26 does say Messiah would be cut off (killed) after 69 weeks. How long after? You presume immediately after, but is this truly the case? In the very next verse the text says he (the Messiah) will confirm the covenant for one week, but in the midst of the week (he will cause) the Daily Sacrifice will cease. The words “he will cause” are inserted into the text by the translator. The Septuagint has it: “And one week shall establish the covenant with many. And in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink offering shall be taken away…” Jesus is that Sacrifice and Drink Offering to God. He represents **all** sacrifices, actually. In this case, however, he is seen as the Sacrifice and Drink Offering, and it ceased or was taken away (i.e. was killed) 3 1/2 years into the 70th week of the prophecy.

      Lord bless you, Roger.

       
    • Roger

      December 29, 2013 at 08:42

      Hello Eddit, Straight to the point: Dan 9:26a “And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, , but not for Himself; (NKJV). There isn’t any assumption on my part; this verse clearly states the fact.

      27b And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
      27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

      27b is a totally different individual or is the Messiah the one who is destroying the sanctuary and bringing wars? Did Jesus cut off His covenant with us in the middle of the week and we no longer have a Messiah? The Temple wasn’t destroyed until 70AD and Titus roasted a pig in the Holy of Holies before he destroyed it. The last week will be fulfilled by the Anti-Christ after the construction of the last Temple.

       
      • Eddie

        December 29, 2013 at 19:18

        Greetings once again Roger. I agree that the verse, as it is translated clearly states Messiah will be cut (off) after the 62 weeks, and the implication of the translation seems to be immediately–just as you ‘presume’. The problem is that that there are words inserted by the translator that are not in the Hebrew, and if you have a translation with Strong’s numbers over the English words, you are able to see for yourself which words have been inserted–not fraudulently, but hoping to give a clear meaning to the text. The flip side of this is, what do these verses say without the inserted words? Certainly you would agree that the **inserted** words are not Scripture; they are the translator’s–meant to offer the correct understanding. Notice verse-25. It says that Messiah comes after 7 weeks plus 62 weeks (69 weeks)! Messiah cannot come **after** 69 weeks and do what he needs to do **before** the 70th week. The 70th week follows immediately after the 69th week according to the text. In the 1st century CE folks who knew the Scriptures believed the last 7 years came immediately after the 483 years, and, quite frankly, I don’t see how Christianity’s more modern interpretation of this is strong enough to supersede what was originally thought by the Jews, including the disciples of the Lord.

         
    • Roger

      December 29, 2013 at 20:16

      Eddie, the problem is that you leave out the 7 weeks until the rebuilding of the temple in verse 25 and then the 62 weeks until the Messiah making 69.

      The 7th week; is Christ the one made the the abominations in the first half of the week?: Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

      The one who will make the covenant for 1 week and Jesus will destroy when He returns: 2 Thes 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God…… 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

       
      • Eddie

        December 30, 2013 at 09:25

        Greetings Roger. I don’t believe I’ve left out anything. 7+62=69! The bottom line is none of the popular commentaries which support removing the 70th Week from the preceding 69 show the ministry of Christ. All are caught up on some future strong man who will be the enemy of both the Jews and the Church. I find no support for that theory here in Daniel. You have **forced** 2Thessalonians 2:4 into the equation, and it doesn’t belong here. I have three studies on ‘the man of sin’ which can be found HERE, if you are interested.

        Concerning how the 70th Week is broken up and how this pertains to Christ confirming the Covenant with many, I have linked to three additional studies in the post we are now discussing. Simply click on those three links, if you care to understand my point of view concerning Christ’s ministry during the 70th Week.

         
    • Roger

      December 30, 2013 at 10:39

      Eddie, I do not adhere to any commentary since they are the words of man and not God; that is the problem we are having here.

       
      • Eddie

        December 30, 2013 at 13:02

        Greetings Roger. Perhaps you don’t adhere to any commentary, but I find no difference between your interpretation of the text and that which I read in commentaries.

         
    • Roger

      December 30, 2013 at 15:20

      Eddie, there is a big difference, I provided scripture and commentaries do not; no scripture has been provided for the fulfillment of the 7th week – pure assumptions.

       
      • Eddie

        December 31, 2013 at 09:24

        What Scripture do you use to explain the first 7 weeks of the count? Is it 2Thessalonians 2:4, 8-10? What possible significance does it have, and where is your proof? One cannot simply throw a Scripture at another and say it fits; one must show how it fits. In any case, you claim the commentaries offer no Scriptures for their understanding, yet I see no difference between their conclusions and yours. How do you account for that?

        Moreover, what possible significance does the first 7 weeks have on Jesus ministry which doesn’t begin until after the 2nd division of the 70 Weeks?

         
  14. Mark Meinecke

    September 18, 2013 at 03:37

    Hi Ed, my name is Mark. I am 61. It is 2:00 in the morning as I read this blog. I mention this so I can say that the older I get, the more time it seems I have for research and study on my favorite subject, the Holy Bible. I only wish I could have had as much time to do this when I was much younger. But, the internet was not available then, and study is much easier now. I stumbled across this blog in search of the answer to the question, “When was Stephen stoned?” I think it’s relevant to know the answer to this question in determining whether or not Paul’s audience in Rome would have been familiar with Paul’s identity. Most certainly there was a Jewish presence in Rome and the Christians in Antioch, Syria, certainly knew who he was. It was some twenty years later when he wrote his letter to the Romans. Do you think the Romans knew who Saul of Tarsus was and the story of his conversion? Also, you mention Theophilus as being High Priest when Paul began his ministry. Can you tell me if this is the same Theophilus to which Luke addressed his gospel and the book of Acts?

     
    • Eddie

      September 18, 2013 at 06:50

      Mark, good morning! I understand your longing and your regrets concerning study. I often wish I knew enough to study more when I was young. Nevertheless, the Lord has a hold on both are hearts today and we can rejoice in that–without regret.:-)

      Concerning how much Roman Jews knew of Paul, it seems evident some, but not all were familiar with him, but how much is difficult to say. When speaking with his Jewish audience at Rome, the Jews expressed only a cursory knowledge of the “Way” (as the faith was known at that time — cp. Acts 28:21-22). Speaking only for myself, I see these Jews probably knowing a rabbi named Saul/Paul was the (a?) leader of the Messianic sect called the “Way” by some. There seems to have been a number of believers in Rome, no doubt coming from Jerusalem where they heard the Gospel for the first time, while on a pilgrimage there, from Peter or one of the other Apostles. So, the Roman Jews **knew** something of the faith, but not enough to make a clear decision for or against Christ. Also, there is a thought to consider concerning why the Jews were banished from Rome during Claudius’ reign. It is recorded by Orosius that the Jews were fighting among themselves concerning one named Chirstus (see Claudius Expels the Jews from Rome). It is difficult to come up with a definitive answer concerning how much the Jews in Rome knew of Paul or the Way, but they weren’t entirely ignorant–that does seem clear.

      Concerning Theophilus, I do believe this is the same Theophilus to whom Luke addressed his Gospel and the Acts. I believe it was necessary to offer the leadership a witness to the truth, just as was done in the Old Testament. Theophilus seems to have been the most open of the Annas clan, but he was no doubt ruled by his father. I don’t believe there was any conversion, but I do believe the witness of Luke’s Gospel frightened him enough to stop the open persecution of the saints in and around Judea. If you care to read it, I have written a blog about this and you may find it HERE.

      Lord bless you, Mark.

       
  15. Chris Cornforth

    January 14, 2013 at 09:10

    Dear Paul,
    I agree with the date of Stephen’s death is 34AD, but must ask you to note the date the 70 week prophecy starts, according to Dan 9:25, is from”the command to restore and build Jerusalem.” This is 457 BC and is found in Ezra 6:7. Nothing is mentioned about starting when the sacrifices started again. If you use the year for a day principle, this prophecy places everything perfectly, including Christ’s death. The stoning of Stephan ends the 70 week prophecy perfectly. At that time, the gospel went to the rest of the world and the Jews were no longer God’s chosen people because of their continual rejection. See Acts 7:51-8:4.
    Chris in Idaho Falls

     
    • Eddie

      January 14, 2013 at 11:04

      Greetings Chris and thank you for reading and offering your comment. I presume your comment is directed to me and not to Paul, since he makes no mention of the 490 years beginning with a sacrifice. If I understand you correctly, you agree with the timeline of the final week of years of the prophecy and that it begins in 457 BC. What you don’t agree with or at least would like to see some proof for is that the actual date in 457 BC was the 1st day of the 7th month. I will proceed on the presumption that I’ve understood you correctly. :-)

      Seven years from a specific date must always be that same date seven years hence. The 70 Weeks Prophecy is slightly different in that it divides the 7 year period up into 1260 days and 1290 days respectively, so, although this is 7 calendar years, it can begin and end on different dates, but it will be within the same month. In order to keep the Holy Days within their proper seasons an intercalary month was added from time to time within a seven year period. I presume we can agree thus far.

      The problem is that nothing works out–at least not using the tools I’ve been using that shows Jesus’ crucifixion 1260 days after a certain date near the beginning of his ministry unless we begin in the autumn. If we **must** begin in the autumn, then the anniversary of the beginning of the 70 Weeks Prophecy is in the autumn, and we have the testimony of Joshua and Zerubbabel building up the Altar of God on the Temple mount on the 1st day of the 7th month. Using the Last Great Day of the Feast of Tabernacles as the beginning of the 1260 days will always put us on Nisan 14, 1260 days later, and this is Passover Day when Jesus was crucified.

      Knowing the math works out for this configuration, what can we say about the beginning of the 70 Weeks Prophecy as found in the book of Ezra? First of all, we need to understand that by the time Ezra arrived in Jerusalem, the Temple had already been built (Cp. Ezra 6:16; 10:1). He arrived in time to dedicate the walls but that is all (Nehemiah 12:27, 36). Therefore, Ezra 6:7 is moot. There are errors in how chronology is configured. Many good intentions were built around configuring the 70 Weeks Prophecy from the decree of Artaxerxes, but all he did was agree a decree had already been made by Cyrus the Great who was the first to permit the Jews to return to their homeland. We know the Jews began to build the Temple on the 1st day of the 7th month of the year of their release (Ezra 3:1-6), and this is the first reference to time in the book. It began here!

      What about the wording of the angel’s prophecy in Daniel 9, and does it allow for the time to begin when the first repairs were being made? I believe it does. The Hebrew word translated “going forth” in Daniel 9:24 does not only include the command from Cyrus’ lips or pen, but also the budding of that command or the first fruits of that command as we can see from the same word translated into “bud” in Job 38:27. The prophecy not only involves the command from Cyrus but the obedience of God’s children to obey that command. It is not in the mere saying that God is honored, but in the doing that he receives praise.

      Hope this is clear and satisfies your question, but if not, say so and I’ll try to do better. Lord bless you,

      Eddie

       
  16. Paul

    January 21, 2012 at 23:56

    Brother, I must find fault with your seemingly arbitrary choice of the time of first sacrifice on the rebuilt altar as the beginning of the calculation for the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy of 70 weeks. The prophecy in Daniel is very specific about the starting point as being “from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:” That date can be shown to be the first day of the month Nisan 445 BCE based on Nehemiah 2:1. There is, apparently, reason to select the first day of the month in the absence of specific reference to a particular day in the scripture text.

    Please see the reasoning and calculations done by a professed Messianic Jew named Guid¥ôn Bèn Israël at this site:
    http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/m.sion/jewc70da.htm

    This man calculates the date to correspond exactly with the very day Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey for his triumphal entry. I do not have the ability to double check his calculations and I do not know him personally, but my point is that at least he follows the calculation according to what is laid out in scripture, rather than choosing a purely arbitrary or “self-reasoned” alternative starting point. This is not warranted, IMHO.

    If I have missed something and if you do have solid scriptural basis to choose the first sacrifice on the rebuilt altar as your starting point for that prophecy, I would appreciate you pointing that out to me. Thank you!

    Blessings and the peace of Jesus Christ to you as we all continue to seek the pure truth of God’s Word

     
    • Ed Bromfield

      January 22, 2012 at 13:52

      Brother Paul, hello and thanks for dropping by and leaving a comment. Actually, my statement concerning Daniel’s 70 weeks isn’t arbitrary. I have listed on the tabs above a number of studies on this subject. You make click HERE. All the studies lead up to and confirming the dates of the beginning and end of the 70 Weeks Prophecy. The two you may be immediately interested in are “Unlikely but True–The 490 Years Begins Here” and “The Seventy Weeks Prophecy Begins When?“. I also have a couple tabs dedicated to the 70 Weeks Prophecy showing what the final week entails. I hope you enjoy the reads. :-)

      Lord bless you,

      Eddie

       
  17. Smoodock

    March 3, 2010 at 21:09

    Hi Joseph,

    If you believe what I have written is true, you may use it however you desire. Thank you for your comment and for reading my blog.

    Lord bless,

    Eddie

     
  18. Joseph

    March 3, 2010 at 14:47

    Wow, great – could I possibly cross-post this with a full link to your blog on RPP?

     

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